Shogun

Rage · February 17, 2002, 12:07

I have just finished reading shogun(the book) and it got me thinking that some of the stuff there should have been in civ3-

1.Gaining a foothold in an enemy country through religion.
2.Being able to become a "go between between enemy civs at war or hostile to one another.
3.More advanced trading options and the ability to pirate their cargo.
4.Selling ships to friendly civs.
5.Royal Marriages
6.Vassal states
7.Different cultures-different tech tree or units for european,asian,african etc.
Anyone got any opinions on this?

John Paul Jones · February 17, 2002, 12:23

1. If you imagine religion to be a part of culture then you already have this. Building temples & cathedrals can give you a foothold in neighbouring civs.

2. Would like this see this option re-introduced from Alpha Centauri. God knows how they'll get the AI to handle this

3. Would love to see privateers (and regular navy) with the option to capture ships and cargo! akin to CTP2

4. Hmm, yeah the only unit you can trade now is a worker IIRC.

5.

6. Vassal states yes - but high chance of rebelling if you treat 'em too mean.

7 Nah...disagree - would really skew multiplayer.

Interesting wish list, apart from royal marriages which would bore me to tears

Rage · February 17, 2002, 12:27

i didnt mean the religion thing like you said but like governments you chose your religion each with + and - . And you could send your priests off to convert the natives of a less powerful civ therefore giving you a hold over the people there.

Ironikinit · February 17, 2002, 12:30

That's not how it's done in Europa Universalis, but you might like that game anyway. It has royal marriages, at least. And different techs for different regions.

Shogun's a pretty good book.

Rage · February 17, 2002, 12:39

Ive heard of EU i was going to get it but i think ill wait for the second one to come out.
i hope trading in civ is made more "real" in an expansion pack.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 15:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Rage
I have just finished reading shogun(the book) and it got me thinking that some of the stuff there should have been in civ3-

1.Gaining a foothold in an enemy country through religion.
2.Being able to become a "go between between enemy civs at war or hostile to one another.
3.More advanced trading options and the ability to pirate their cargo.
4.Selling ships to friendly civs.
5.Royal Marriages
6.Vassal states
7.Different cultures-different tech tree or units for european,asian,african etc.
Anyone got any opinions on this?

I like the religion idea! There could be a Preacher unit that you send to another city and then live with them, in the same that Workers and Settlers do now. It could be similar to the propoganda thing they have now.

And yes, definitely a go-between. Some MPP partner wants to drag me into a war, I'd like the possibility of ending it diplomatically.

Captain · February 17, 2002, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Rage
I have just finished reading shogun(the book) and it got me thinking that some of the stuff there should have been in civ3-

1.Gaining a foothold in an enemy country through religion.
2.Being able to become a "go between between enemy civs at war or hostile to one another.
3.More advanced trading options and the ability to pirate their cargo.
4.Selling ships to friendly civs.
5.Royal Marriages
6.Vassal states
7.Different cultures-different tech tree or units for european,asian,african etc.
Anyone got any opinions on this?

2. GReat idea! But I'm not sure the AI would be able to handle such power.

4. How about just being able to TRADE UNITS at all? The arms trade has always been a large player in the world economy. Not just seeling ships, but aircraft, missiles, tanks... other units are harder to envision exporting but if you consider them as "mercenary units" or as sending experts over to train locals who become the actual units.

7. Different culture & graphics yes. Different tech tree no. There is nothing inherently different about people that makes them unable to access certain technologies.
You could make it so that certain techs preclude/exclude others so that you limit yourself by the choices you make - but nothing should be predetermined. It's the old unique Civ predetermined versus unique civ by choices made argument.

MikeV · February 17, 2002, 17:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain
4. How about just being able to TRADE UNITS at all? The arms trade has always been a large player in the world economy. Not just seeling ships, but aircraft, missiles, tanks... other units

The Vassal State strategy is discussed elsewhere. I know the only units you can trade at present are Workers. But, don't you get a similar effect by selling a Tech that allows the other civ to create units it couldn't before (assuming it has the strategic resources required)? For example, selling Chivalry.

Rage · February 17, 2002, 18:16

Quote:

But, don't you get a similar effect by selling a Tech that allows the other civ to create units it couldn't before (assuming it has the strategic resources required)? For example, selling Chivalry

No because it will take the AI time to build the units and if they only have a few cities left it will be a long time. And say if someone in the middleages you cant give them motorized transport straight away you would have to give them all the advances leading up to it.

Immortal Wombat · February 17, 2002, 18:23

Quote:

Anyone got any opinions on this?

Get a game with a scripting language.

1 - Religion is in the works for CtP2
3 - Pirating in CtP already
4 - Selling units is easily added I think
5,6, - Civs merging into one by 'peaceful' means is an add-on I just completed.
7 - Easily SLICed.

Ironikinit · February 18, 2002, 01:20

Thank you, one note johnny.

ACooper · February 18, 2002, 01:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Get a game with a scripting language.

1 - Religion is in the works for CtP2
3 - Pirating in CtP already
4 - Selling units is easily added I think
5,6, - Civs merging into one by 'peaceful' means is an add-on I just completed.
7 - Easily SLICed.

Hey, Wombat. In case you haven't noticed this is the CIV3 forum.

Just thought I should point that out since you seem so confused.

Libertarian · February 18, 2002, 08:10

Quote:

Thank you, one note johnny.

Said the pot to the kettle.

Immortal Wombat · February 18, 2002, 08:41

Quote:

Originally posted by ACooper
Hey, Wombat. In case you haven't noticed this is the CIV3 forum.

Just thought I should point that out since you seem so confused.

It is?

Oh damn, I'm sorry, I hadn't realised.

Oh, please, I beg your forgiveness Mr Cooper.

Thankyou so much for pointing out my misguidedness, how can I have been so stupid not to notice that in the first place? Oh I feel so foolish

.

No, but seriously, show me how there is even the remotest possibilty of implementing any of them in Civ3? YOU CAN'T DO IT. You almost certainly will never be able to do it. If you want it, you'll have to find a game where you can do it. That game is not Civ3.

The only thing I wonder about is when you'll realise you're dreaming and stop.

Ironikinit · February 18, 2002, 09:35

You'll excuse me for being all off-topic and all, but since you felt free to start an off-topic poll, Mr. Wombat, maybe you could satisfy my curiousity. Have you ever played Civ 3? Do you own it? What's up with constantly bugging about CtP2?

Immortal Wombat · February 18, 2002, 09:39

No, no, and I'm sorry.

I got fed of people who hadn't got the game bashing it, so when Civ3 didn't live up to everyone's expectations, it was faintly amusing to point out where CtP2 was superior.
I won't do it anymore.

Willem · February 18, 2002, 11:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

No, but seriously, show me how there is even the remotest possibilty of implementing any of them in Civ3? YOU CAN'T DO IT. You almost certainly will never be able to do it. If you want it, you'll have to find a game where you can do it. That game is not Civ3.

People used to say that man would never be able to fly as well. I guess they were proven wrong eh?

Immortal Wombat · February 18, 2002, 14:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
People used to say that man would never be able to fly as well. I guess they were proven wrong eh?

They were using the wrong tools.

Willem · February 18, 2002, 19:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

They were using the wrong tools.

But eventually they got it right.

Immortal Wombat · February 18, 2002, 20:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
But eventually they got it right.

Using different tools...