Barbarians!

Rage · February 17, 2002, 14:14

Ive had a few troubles with these but their no where near the amount of bother they were in civ2.
so heres a few suggestions to improve this part of the game-

1.When barbarians capture a city there is a 50-50 chance it will be destroyed-making them more of a threat.
2.The ability to pay barbarians not to attack you.
3.to beable to recruit barbarians into your army.
4.to hire them to attack your opponents-as barbarians not aspart of yor army.

And a question(ive looked round the forums but couldnt see any explanation of this)-What is the default money option in the general settings in the editor?Does anyone know?

Willem · February 17, 2002, 14:31

Are you talking about the goody huts money resource? If so, then everytime you get money from a hut, it will also create the resource that you specify. Getting techs, units etc. have no effect, it only happens when you receive money.

And I agree with you, I'd like to see the Barbarians a little tougher myself, though I'm sure about the recruitment thing. Though it might be interesting. They should at least be able to raze a size one city, like the other civs automatically do.

Rage · February 17, 2002, 14:57

i think it might be the goody huts, is it the one in the bottom right corner?
I tried changing but couldnt see any difference.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 15:01

That's the one.

Panag · February 17, 2002, 17:02

should barbarians not be able to take over a city and run it ?

have a nice day

Rage · February 17, 2002, 17:08

Most barbarian tribes preferred to move around a lot but it would make them as dangerous as they were in civ2-wich is good.
But once the barbarians capturd the city then they wouldnt really be barbarians anymore..i think!

Willem · February 17, 2002, 17:14

I'd rather just see them raze a city then go away. The last unit in the stack should have the honours, after the rest have finished raping and looting.

star mouse · February 17, 2002, 19:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Rage
Ive had a few troubles with these but their no where near the amount of bother they were in civ2.

Trust me, they can be bothersome. I had about 30 of them appear 2 squares from a city without any warning (might be a bug in 1.17?). It turns out there were three separate encampments in the wasteland within 10 squares of the city, and then a fourth encampment appeared after I had destroyed the first three. It wasn't until I had found all four that they stopped.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 19:38

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse

Trust me, they can be bothersome. I had about 30 of them appear 2 squares from a city without any warning (might be a bug in 1.17?). It turns out there were three separate encampments in the wasteland within 10 squares of the city, and then a fourth encampment appeared after I had destroyed the first three. It wasn't until I had found all four that they stopped.

Oh good, it sounds like Soren has beefed up the Barbarians! And no that stack wasn't a bug, I was getting them in 1.16f playing on Raging.

star mouse · February 17, 2002, 19:38

When they attack an undefended city, give them a 50% chance of not disappearing. They would then proceed to another city and wreak havoc there.
Allow them to raze cities that have 1 population and no improvements. (Barbarians would kill population 1 point at a time, and also destroy improvements one at a time.)
Allow them to promote in battle when they win with the same odds as a militaristic civ.
Bring back barbarians capturing cities! This should work like CIV 2, where the city then produces more barbarians. It would work like an encampment, except you can recapture the city. This would be an option in addition to steal gold, kill population, destroy improvements and raze city.
When the barbarians capture and raze a city, have a new Barbarian encampment placed on that spot.
Have encampments spawn "small uprisings" and "large uprisings" of barbarians as well as "massive uprisings" and single units. Small uprisings should have 1/4 of the numbers of a massive uprising, and large uprisings should have 1/2 the numbers of a massive uprising.
It should be possible for a civ to be destroyed by barbarians. This might weed out any weak civs early.

Purple · February 17, 2002, 20:26

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse

Trust me, they can be bothersome. I had about 30 of them appear 2 squares from a city without any warning (might be a bug in 1.17?). It turns out there were three separate encampments in the wasteland within 10 squares of the city, and then a fourth encampment appeared after I had destroyed the first three. It wasn't until I had found all four that they stopped.

This has happened to me in several games (pre- and post-second patch) using the default barbarian setting, but usually on huge maps with lots of undeveloped terrain. On smaller maps, development seems to limit the number of uprisings. But when three or four distant cities come under attack by the packs of horsement all at the same time, it's a bit scary.

star mouse · February 17, 2002, 20:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Purple
This has happened to me in several games (pre- and post-second patch) using the default barbarian setting, but usually on huge maps with lots of undeveloped terrain. On smaller maps, development seems to limit the number of uprisings. But when three or four distant cities come under attack by the packs of horsement all at the same time, it's a bit scary.

Mine were KNIGHTS because of the mod I was playing, and I only had spearmen defending. So I spent all my treasury establising embassies so the Barbarians wouldn't steal it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
Oh good, it sounds like Soren has beefed up the Barbarians! And no that stack wasn't a bug, I was getting them in 1.16f playing on Raging.

Usually, you get advance warning about massive uprisings from the military advisor. This is the first time I had them heading my way without getting the warning first.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 20:38

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse

Usually, you get advance warning about massive uprisings from the military advisor. This is the first time I had them heading my way without getting the warning first.

No, I've had them without warning before. For one thing it looks like you only get a warning if the uprising is fairly near your territory. Also, they keep producing Horseman and stacking them up, so if you don't take out their encampment quickly, they'll grow to a fairly large force.

Terser · February 17, 2002, 20:43

It's a little feature, but one that I'd like to see nonetheless: I wish CivIII barbs were akin to those in CivII in changing over time. In CivII IIRC it went barbs-->revolutionaries-->guerillas. Seems kind of silly that you could potentially have barbs running around in 2050.

I'll never forget the first time I saw a guerilla uprising in CivII. Twas one of the most shocking (and yet pleasantly surprising) events I've witnessed in the Civ series. I'd like to have it again in CivIII.

MikeV · February 17, 2002, 22:25

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse
Trust me, they can be bothersome. I had about 30 of them appear 2 squares from a city without any warning (might be a bug in 1.17?). It turns out there were three separate encampments in the wasteland within 10 squares of the city, and then a fourth encampment appeared after I had destroyed the first three. It wasn't until I had found all four that they stopped.

It seems important to go after the huts. They seem to evolve over time, and your results with them depend on the "stage" you find them in:

- empty
- some money
- a map (or friendly warrior or settler)
- some enemy warriors
- some enemy warriors and horsemen

Leave them alone, and they generate galleys and/or horsemen to go out founding other villages and pillaging civilized towns.

Leave them alone long enough, and they generate a lot of horsemen.

And now, they can generate more modern stuff.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 22:47

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeV

It seems important to go after the huts. They seem to evolve over time, and your results with them depend on the "stage" you find them in:

- empty
- some money
- a map (or friendly warrior or settler)
- some enemy warriors
- some enemy warriors and horsemen

Leave them alone, and they generate galleys and/or horsemen to go out founding other villages and pillaging civilized towns.

Leave them alone long enough, and they generate a lot of horsemen.

And now, they can generate more modern stuff.

Your thinking of two different things here. There are two different types of Barbarians, the friendly ones in the goody huts, and the aggressive ones in the camps. If a Barbarian unit pops out of a goody hut, it's a one time thing. They don't create any new units over time, it's just a surprise. It's only the camps that generate the new Barbarians, and it's those you have to worry about. The goody huts just sit there until you enter one.

And it's the goody huts that are generating the better units, not the camps. A raging horde will still be a bunch of Horseman, that's still the same, though it sounds like it might be more frequent. There's a lot of confusion over this, the readme.txt didn't explain it very well.