I might have solution for 64 civs, not working on slow comps

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

How about in the installation, it would give you a 3 different install options, one for different levels of memory, the first (smallest), would be ____, it would be for 16 civs, this one would be for low memory, slow, out-of-date, computers. the second option would be ____, this one would be for 32 civs. IT would be for the moderate computers. and then the highest, and largest install would be ____, it would be 64 civs, and it would be for guys with computers with Top-of-the-line stuff. What do you think?

[airdrik]

Good idea, you could even have a list of things that can be installed or not installed. Ex. unit workshop (I have suggested it many times but one more time won't hurt), 3d/2d maps, sherical/square maps, etc.

Comments, suggestions?

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Thanks for your optimism. Your idea of add-on installations is a great idea!

[Ribannah]

Since Civ2 ran smoothly on my old 486-33 Mhz, my present pentium-233-below-low-end-of-the-market should be able to accomodate 255 civs on 16 x the large map without any trouble.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Yes probably Ribbhanna, but its not just the amount of civs that take up memory, its the graphics, scenarios, etc. that take up the real room, My 500 mhz computer that I have right now should hold it all, what about you?

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 12-11-2000 07:18 PM Yes probably Ribbhanna, but its not just the amount of civs that take up memory, its the graphics, scenarios, etc. that take up the real room, My 500 mhz computer that I have right now should hold it all, what about you?

Doubliabo, I can run games on my computer that are 20 times the size of Civ2, including all that, saves, logs, and screenshots. By the time Civ3 comes out, I'll hopefully have a new puter, too, increasing the potential by a factor 10, but that's for other purposes, it won't really be necessary for Civ3.


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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

How much memory do you have????

[Ribannah]

I have quite a lot of memory, much of it is still unused.

My computer has a decent amount of memory as well (several GB), of course more would always be better: I'd like to have many games installed simultaneously.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Umm, MY computer has quite a bit of memory also (20 gigs to be exact). What game do you have that is 20xs the size of civ2?

[Ralf]

The problem of adding up to 64+ simultaneously playing AI-civs is not so much a question of logarithmically increasing memory- and processor-power needs.

It is instead a question of exponentially increasing mathematical calculation needs.

(Not to say, the hugely increasing problems, when it comes to developing and debugging the AI in such a software-monster).

On the other hand: If one dont care about a significantly weaker AI-response, and that perhaps more 40-50 of above AI-civs only consists of 2-4 cities: Well, in that case, perhaps 64+ simultaneously playing AI-civs could be done. Have fun, playing such a game.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited December 12, 2000).]

[Ralf]

Double-post. Sorry!
[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited December 12, 2000).]

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 12-12-2000 02:25 PM The problem of adding up to 64+ simultaneously playing AI-civs is not so much a question of logarithmically increasing memory- and processor-power needs. It is instead a question of exponentially increasing mathematical calculation needs.

Why do you think so?

I explained why that isn't true in the last thread on this topic. So if you still think otherwise, provide reasoning.

quote: (Not to say, the hugely increasing problems, when it comes to developing and debugging the AI in such a software-monster).

(Sigh.) No extra code is needed, unless there are extra game features (eg religion, colonies) to actually have the larger number of civs add something to gameplay.
[/quote]

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[airdrik]

The reason why it would be exponential, later in the game, is that the more civs a civ knows about, the more civs it has to worry about when deciding what to do. At the start of the game, before anyone finds anyone else, it will just be a little slower, but as civs meet up with other civs, then you have more interactions, and more calculations needed to determine what one civ is going to do. As time goes on, though, civs are destroyed and there are less civs to deal with.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Thats why I want 64+ civs! because it makes the game funner, harder, and more realistic.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by airdrik on 12-12-2000 10:52 PM The reason why it would be exponential, later in the game, is that the more civs a civ knows about, the more civs it has to worry about when deciding what to do.

It would only be exponential if a civ would take into account the reactions of all other 62 civs to their attitude towards another tribe. Otherwise it's merely quadratic.
It is not likely Civ3 will be programmed that way, but even if it would a limitation to major relations (say neighbours and world powers) would still keep this a minor part of all calculations.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

dang, I didnt think this thread would get this much attention. I wish people would go to my more important topics.
like my, Units. topic, or my Radar topic. those two are much more important then this...I think anyway.

[connorkimbro]

Sorry to interrupt, but you should know that "memory" and "hard drive space" are NOT the same thing.

Memory, or RAM. . is one thing. . you mentioned 20gb of "memory" . . and you MEANT hard drive space.

In the speed of a game. . it is RAM that is more important that the amount of space you have on the hard drive.

Carry on.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

You sound like my mother.