2194 Days Remake

[our_man]

With regard to what you said about the civilian population improvement Pap, what's to stop military bases from building it? Are you planning just to give it to certain cities at the beginning and then make it unresearchable?

If you're thinking of doing it this way, what do you plan to do about the cities with this improvement in it if they're captured and the improvement is destroyed?

[Pap1723]

Our_Man--

The Civilian Population will be non-researchable and only given to cities at the start of the game.

I had not thought about if the cities are captured, but I think it won't be a problem if they are destroyed. Just because in a situation where a city is being ruled by another country, it would not grow as much.

Technically, cities under German or Japanese control would most likely lose population.

I hope I make sense...

Pap

[our_man]

Pap, I see your point about cities lacking population growth under an occupying war, bu there's also a danger that if you restrict population growth and if a city changes hands enough times, it will be destroyed. I suppose you could be able to get around this by making city walls a really cheap improvement.

There might be another way however. I seem to remember there's a quirk when it comes to recapturing cities and the improvements that are not destroyed. Don't quote me on this, but I believe if you previously owned a city and reconquer it from another power, all the improvements in the city remain intact (this is how a player can end up with two palaces sometimes).

So what you could do is set up all of the cities at the start of the game, give them city walls and then allow another power to capture them. Then cheat build city walls in cities where they have been destroyed. Then allow another power to capture these cities, cheat build cities walls etc. When finished return them to their original ownership.

This does sound like an awful lot of work however, and I'm not even sure if it would work.

[Caspian]

Pap1723, Another german bomber was the Ju 88. They were also developing a heavy bomber with which strike Russian Industry beyond the Urals although it was plagued with technical difficulties:- He177 Greif (Griffon)

[Chris 62]

Caspian has a good idea with the He-177, a four engine (though two propellar) heavy bomber that never worked correctly, yet was built in some numbers.



You could use the other slot for Ju-87G-2 Stuka Tankbuster with two 37mm cannon slung under it's wings.



Or maybe the Hs-129, a purpose built ground attack aircraft with an Cannon built in and a reinforced tub to protect the pilot from ground fire.



The Germans also built an improved Ju-88, named the Ju-188





I'm sure I could find more types if these aern't satisfactory.

[Soundwave]

Love those graphics!

[HisMajestyBOB]

sounds great! just one thing, dont make v-1s and kamakazis too powerful.

[Soundwave]

Please Please do a good Stuka pic, not a cartoon one, i love stuka's, give them justice, they were slow, but so powerful, espically against SHIPS, would should come into account!

[Pap1723]

I have finalized the units list, but I am still open to suggestions.
This is how the units and events will be loaded:

Jan.42--->Mid 42--->Jan.43--->Mid 43--->Jan.44--->Mid 44--->Jan.45

GERMAN PLANES
Fw.190A---unitl Jan.44--->Fw.190D
Me Bf109 G
Ju-87 Stuka---until Jan.44--->Ju-188
Ju-88
He.111---until Mid 44--->Ju-188
*Me262A--------in Mid 44
*V-1 Rocket-----in Jan.44---until Mid 44--->V-2 Rocket
--------------------------------------------------
JAPANESE PLANES
A6M2 Zero---until Mid 43--->A65M Zero
G4M Betty Bomber---until Mid 42--->Ki-67 Bomber
Val Dive Bomber---until Jan.44--->Val Kamikaze---until Jan.45--->Ohka Kamikaze
--------------------------------------------------
AMERICAN PLANES
P-40---until Jan.43--->P-47D---until Mid 44--->P-51D
*P-38------------in Jan.43---until Jan.45--->P-51D
B-25 Mitchell---until Mid 44--->B-29 Superfortress
F4U Corsiar---until Mid 43--->F6F Hellcat
B-24D Liberator---until Jan.44--->B-17 Flying Fortress
---------------------------------------------------
BRITISH PLANES
Hurricane Mk.IIC---until Jan.43--->Hawker Typhoon
Spitfire Mk.II---until Mid 42--->Spit Mk.IX---until Jan.44--->Spit Mk.XIV
Avro Lancaster
----------------------------------------------------
RUSSIAN PLANES
I-16 Fighter---until Mid 42---> LA-5 Fighter---until Jan.43--->IL-2 Fighter
Pe-2 Medium Bomber
-----------------------------------------------------
GENERIC PLANES
Fighter
Bomber


That is the full list...British and Americans are on the same side, so should i get rid of some of thier planes???

Anything I missed or should be changed???

Pap

[Soundwave]

I know that you dont have to listen to me BUT

the stuka was used till the lasts days! between 43-45, was used in the dive bombing against land and mostly sea, and as an anti tank platform (very effective at Kursk and the Battle of Pozan)

[Pap1723]

Soundwave, thanks, I wasn't sure if the Stuka went obsolete or not.


Pap

[Chris 62]

Soviet IL-2 is a ground attack AC, not a fighter.

Someone already mentioned this, but I think it's critical, V-1s and Okhas were FAR to powerfull in the last version, both were short range neusance weapons, not percision smart munitions.

An AF of 20 is WAY out of line, 3-5 would be much closer, and the fact is, both weapons were useless against ground forces (not the case in the game, they hit Pearl harbor from Japan, and sink BBs easily, a joke!) and had almost no range.
Kamikazes were guided to the target by a non-kamikaze and did their best getting there, but often failed, V-1s were sent in the direction of London and hoped for the best.

The allies were so unimpressed with the Ohka they called it "Baka", meaning "stupid".
This was airlaunched, usually slug from "Betty" bombers, and were extremly vunerable to interception.

Some ideas for airpower:

GERMAN PLANES
Fw.190A---unitl Jan.44--->Fw.190D
Me Bf109 G
Ju-87 Stuka---until Jan.44--->Ju-188
Ju-88
He.111---until Mid 44--->He-177Far more common then Ju-188
*Me262A--------in Early 45 This could have been earlier, but that is debatable.
*V-1 Rocket-----in august44Not operational till after Normandy landing---until Mid 44--->V-2 Rocket

AMERICAN PLANES
P-40---until Jan.43--->P-47D---until Mid 44--->P-51D
*P-38------------in Jan.43---until Jan.45--->P-51D
B-25 Mitchell---until Mid 44--->B-29 Superfortress
F4U Corsiar---until Mid 43--->F6F Hellcat Both came into widespread use in Jan 43, and the Corsair was still in use in the late 50s, the F6F was retired in 46, hard to see the Hellcat replace the Corsair
B-24D Liberator---until Jan.44--->B-17 Flying Fortress The B-17 was in operation for the whole war, the B-24 replaced it!!!

[HisMajestyBOB]

Someone already mentioned this, but I think it's critical, V-1s and Okhas were FAR to powerfull in the last version, both were short range neusance weapons, not percision smart munitions.

I'd prefer it if they were taken out completely. I don't think they really effected the war much.

[Chris 62]

I agree with Bob, those slots could be used from more AC, or maybe more Armor.

Japan built a four engine bomber prototype (4 of them actually) called the Renzan (allied code name:Rita), so one slot could give them a long range bomber, and Japan could have the Ki-84 Frank, a plane that was superior to most allied fighters.

[Case]

How are you managing the British heavy bombers?

IMHO, the progression should go Wellington -> Lancestor -> Lincoln (basically a souped up Lanc')

[Chris 62]

No stirling or Halifax, Case?

The Wimpy (Wellington) was used as a heavy bomber for lack of anything else, it's really a medium bomber, Bomber command's first four engined Heavy bomber was the Short Stirling.



The halifax was quite important to Bomber comand.



The Lincoln looks almost the same as the Lancaster, can't see how the units would differ much in appearence.

[Pap1723]

Here are the vehicles, I need help with the progression of the Japanese tanks, otherwise, just the usual help please...

GERMAN VEHICLES
*PzKw IV Ausf.F1--til Mid 42-->PzKw IV Ausf.G--til Jan.43-->PzKw VI Tiger 1 Ausf.H--til Jan.44-->PzKw Tiger II
*PzKw III Ausf.J--til Jan.43-->PzKw IV Ausf.H--til Mid 43-->PzKw V Panther Ausf.A--Mid 44-->PzKw V Panther Ausf.G
*Marder----in Mid 42--til Jan.43-->Stug III Ausf.G--til Mid 43-->Ferdinand--til Jan.44-->Jagdpanther--til Jan.45-->Hetzer
*Wespe----in Jan.43--til Mid 43-->Hummel--til Jan.45-->Sturmtiger
--------------------------------------------
AMERICAN VEHICLES
*M3 Stuart--til Mid 42-->M3A1 Stuart--til Jan.43-->M5A1 Stuart--til Jan.44-->M4A4 Sherman--til Mid 44-->M4A3 76(W) HVSS Sherman
*M4A2 Sherman--til Mid 42-->M4A4 Sherman--til Jan.44-->M4A3 76(W) HVSS Sherman--til Jan.45-->M26 Pershing
*M-10----in Mid 42--til Mid 43-->M-18--til Mid 44-->M36
*M-7 Preist-----in Mid 42--til Jan.45-->155mm GMC M40
--------------------------------------------
SOVIET VEHICLES
*T-34/76--til Jan.44-->T-34/85
*KV-1--til Jan.44-->JS-2
*T-26--til Jan.44-->T-34/76
*Katyusha Launcher
--------------------------------------------
JAPANESE VEHICLES
*Model 95 Tank
--------------------------------------------
GENERIC VEHICLES
*Light Tank
*AA Battery
*Engineers
*Artillery
*Freight

--------------------------------------------
SHIPS
Destroyer
Cruiser
Battleship
Super Battleship
Carrier
Submarine
Transport
Type XII U-Boat-----------GERMAN
USS Arizona-----til April 43--->Essex Class Carrier----------USA


Pap

[HisMajestyBOB]

Shouldn't the T34-85 come early-mid 43? And the T-26 should be obsolte much earlier.

The Japanese didn't have much in the way of effective tanks, so just one unique Jap tank plus the standard light tank outta be fine.

As for subs, its should be the German Type-VII or Type-IX (or both!), I've never heard of a XII

And maybe a unique Allied 'Liberty Ship' or something that can hold 6-8 units, and the generic freighter holds 3-4, making massive German/Japanese assaults more unlikely.

[Soundwave]

I heard of it too, the German invented, thefirst guidied torpedo and something esle, i think the first 'heavy water' sub... like nuclear, not so powerful, but was bombed by allied aircraft in the late war, so the Germans were fighting for europe so the project was scaped!

DAMN!

[HisMajestyBOB]

Originally posted by Soundwave
I heard of it too, the German invented, thefirst guidied torpedo and something esle, i think the first 'heavy water' sub... like nuclear, not so powerful, but was bombed by allied aircraft in the late war, so the Germans were fighting for europe so the project was scaped!

DAMN!

The type XII? Sounds a little like the Type XIX (which was the first sub that could go faster underwater than out of water). Plus, the type XIX went to sea the day after the war ended (or something like that), so the IX would be a better choice.

[Case]

The Type VII and IX were both advailable from the start of the war. (the VII was a small attack sub, and the IX was a long range 'cruiser' sub).

The Type XII was an 'elecktro boat', and was basically the first true submarine. Had the Germans been able to introdcuce sufficant numbers of these subs in 1943 the battle of the Atlantic could have turned out very differently...

Anyway, the first Type XII's didn't appear untill the last months of the war, and they were very poorly built (largely the result of heavy Allied air raids), and achieved little apart from wasting Germany's scarce resources

I think that Soundwave is refering to the Type XVII boats, which were powered by 'Walter' Engines, which ran on rocket fuel! (hydrogen peroxide). These subs weren't really practical, and never got beyond prototype stage.

www.uboat.net is the source on all things U Boat related (and one of the best things on the net IMO)

[klesh]

Originally posted by HisMajestyBOB
Shouldn't the T34-85 come early-mid 43?

T-34/85mm's research and design was starting in mid '43. By December they only had 2 prototypes which didnt't even have their guns attached yet. It wasnt untill January that thew were ordered up for fullscale production. Even having the 76's from the start should be a problem for the Soviet. He'll be able to pump those out good n right with all his cities. Make sure they are of proper cost so as not to have waves and waves of them right of the bat.

-FMK.

Edit: Got that info from here .

[The ANZAC]

Pap: Are you going to include the M3 Grant/Lee? That did come before the Sherman and did serve witht the British and Americans.

[Pap1723]

I placed all of the cities for the Allies, Axis, and Japanese.

Case is helping me out by finishing the Russians and Chinese for me.

I'll post some screenshots when the map is complete.

Pap

[Pap1723]

The ANZAC--

Don't know if I am going to use the Grant/Lee.
As of right now, it is just the Stuart, but I have been talking to Chris 62 and we are trying to get the unit list finished up.

Pap

[The ANZAC]

But the Stuart was a light tank and the Grant was a medium. Just an idea, your decision.

[Case]

Originally posted by The ANZAC
But the Stuart was a light tank and the Grant was a medium. Just an idea, your decision.

Strangely both tanks were called the M3

[Pap1723]

As Chris 62 and I get down the the end of the units list, there are a few units that I need drawn for me in the Nemo style units please.

Heinkel He.177 Greif Bomber
Aichi Val Dive Bomber
B-25 Mitchell
Gloster Meteor
Jagdpanzer IV Tank Destroyer
Jagdtiger VI Tank Destroyer
105mm sIG 33 SP Artillery
M36 Tank Destroyer
Matilda Mk.III
Centurain MBT

Thanks a lot to anyone who can make these for me.

Pap

[Soundwave]

If you get Nemos Red Front it has a few of those units in it!

Just a hint...

[Pap1723]

Soundwave, thanks, but the only unit I found was the Jagdtiger.

Still Need:
Heinkel He.177 Greif Bomber
Aichi Val Dive Bomber
B-25 Mitchell
Gloster Meteor
Jagdpanzer IV Tank Destroyer
105mm sIG 33 SP Artillery
M36 Tank Destroyer
Matilda Mk.III
Centurain MBT

Pap