Beyond Alpha Centauri::: Discussion Thread 3

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Sprayber
One question. Does the Hive intend to try to take the colony? I thought that the TA was going to take it. In an invasion such as this, you need a lot of cooperation and communication to pull it off or the Hive and the TA will end up running into each other. Not that I would mind, but I'm just letting you guys know.

Franky, You do know that once the Hive commits themself to the attack that they are basically declaring war. Now, I would hate for the Hive to go through all that trouble and then the Terrans decide to seek peace after all is said and done Yang has thought about that right.

For your first point, I was thinking that the Hive would "liberate" Samnos while the Terrans would take custody of Naxos. Kass has discussed how we would prevent our two fleets from miscommunicating by the Hive's ambassador to them.

As for your second point.....uh....of course we know we're declaring war! Don't forget about ambassador M'rock waiting for the Spartan's response! *wink* I kinda wanted it like WWII with the Japanese giving the Americans their response AFTER the attack was made.

I was thinking that if the Terrans do sue for peace and achieve it, Yang would effectively call the Samnos liberation a success and cease all hostility between the Hive and Morgan Interstellar...as well as open up a communications channel between Nwabudike and Yang. (i forget History Guy, did you want us to have an open channel?)

This way the Hive would free the oppressed citizens of Samnos, keep the colony world, and end the hostilities between our two governments and still have a (relatively) untarnished reputation. If Morgan decided to pursue hostilities, he would look like the bad guy.

Of course, I don't actually believe this and I think Yang is the wrong one here...but I'm trying to think of what Sheng-ji would do in this position.

What do you guys think? Devious?

[Lonestar]

By a amazing Coincidence, I too will not be in town Tuesday and Wednesday.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by frankychan

This way the Hive would free the oppressed citizens of Samnos, keep the colony world, and end the hostilities between our two governments and still have a (relatively) untarnished reputation. If Morgan decided to pursue hostilities, he would look like the bad guy.

Of course, I don't actually believe this and I think Yang is the wrong one here...but I'm trying to think of what Sheng-ji would do in this position.

What do you guys think? Devious?

The Morganites may not be your neighbors there when its all said and done

The Hive and the Terrans may end up going at it for Samnos before this is all said and done. Thankfully there are two moons around the gas planet. Just remember, the Spartans are very protective of the Coperate Sector. They see it as a very important investment. This will be enough for them to seek allies nearest the Hive where otherwise they would be cold to.


But is all good

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Regarding FTL signatures. I thought we agreed that single signals were hard to detect and by hard I mean it is very possible for single ships to get in and out without being detected. But where a fleet is concerned, you are going to see those a long way off. You may not know who they are, or just how many they are but you will know they are there. You may not even be able to determine the exact direction but if you have intel sats out there that are worth what you paid for them, you will see the signals. There has to be some kind of defense against fleets for a system. The odds are already in favor of the attacker as it is if you don't have lots of ships stationed near by.

Okay, we are getting confused here... Way i understood History is that, the morganite will detect the TA ships while they are in FTL transits coming to the systems.... and i responded it was impossible. Then, the only time one could detect ships is when they get out of FTL into a system or wherever... and that FTL detectors can detect "footprints", detecting the echo of the arrivals just getting out of FTL....but cannot seriously identify the fleet... maybe a good guess... unless you have several sensor arrays about the system.

-LMP

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Sprayber


The Morganites may not be your neighbors there when its all said and done

The Hive and the Terrans may end up going at it for Samnos before this is all said and done. Thankfully there are two moons around the gas planet. Just remember, the Spartans are very protective of the Coperate Sector. They see it as a very important investment. This will be enough for them to seek allies nearest the Hive where otherwise they would be cold to.


But is all good

Nod, thanx. True, I never thought about the Terrans wanting Samnos...must see how Kass wants things to play out.

If you guys are planning an invasion, you guys will confirm with me right? I just don't wanna have to find out Hive space has been invaded and have to post something up to try and "counter" it....but I doubt that's going to happen.

Anyway, I was going to use the liberation of Samnos (I'm using Hive propaganda terms.. ) to let readers see how Hive society develops.

I'm thinking that Samnos would be an example to the reader of how the Hive goes about establishing a foothold on a planet (whether colonized or conquered) and have readers infer the events on Samnos to how Hive cities are created.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Er, as I recall, Drecaille sent a message to Morgan declaring war and informing him that they were about to attack Samnos. Wouldn't that be a rather good warning?

As i recall, i still not updated with the story... and if that is the truth, then Drecaille deserves to be shot.

-LMP

[GeneralTacticus]

EDIT: Oops, Mellian and I cross-posted.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber


I've been thinking about that Kass. I was thinking about asking what ya'lls thinking on that was. But since you forced my had

What are ya'lls thinking on doing the time warp again? Not immediatly mind you but a little later.

where i can catch up and finally able to participate...not often story wise, but enough to keep things going.

if we do a time warp... i say we jump 5-10 years

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Er, like I said, didn't Drecaille send a message to Morgan declaring war and telling him the TAF were about about to attack Naxos and Samnos? Kind of a give-away, that.

i read the first time okay.... do realize people i am behind in reading the story... and if i was keeping up, i would of went WTF???

second, i don't read all of the posts and then reply.... i read each post and make individual replies, not being in mind of other posts.... only time i do is when i read the thread, but no time to reply.

-LMP

[GeneralTacticus]

Quote:

Er, as I recall, Drecaille sent a message to Morgan declaring war and informing him that they were about to attack Samnos. Wouldn't that be a rather good warning?

As i recall, i still not updated with the story... and if that is the truth, then Drecaille deserves to be shot.

-LMP

Here it is, page 8 of BAC:

Public Wide-Channel Transmission

From:

Prime Minister Elise Drecaille on behalf of the Parliament of Earth

To:

Morgan Interstellar

We had no intention of letting this escalate this into something as big as the conquering of entire star systems. We despise the way this expression is worn-out, but we shall use it in any case: "You started it."

The next time you decide to jump on someone's toes, attempt to avoid the consequences and try to put the blame on someone else; think again.

By the time you receive this message, several Battle Fleets of our Navy have arrived to one of your border systems, Samnos. The Terran Alliance and it's Member States will assist us in this effort.

Consider this a declaration of war.

The Coalition of Earth.

[Mellian]

2701 - 27xx - The Morganite - Inen/Terran Conflict... the current prospect shows that a larger interTerran war seems nearly inevitable, especially with the TA's ultimate goal... but I wouldn't see that happen until after some ten years, by that time the Coalition transition to Police State would be nearly finished, creating the much-talked about spark between EC and TA.

Can't have the spark happen to far ahead either, because of the TA reforms i am trying to achieve while TA gets stronger, there can still be a lot internal problems...but not to the point of crippling TA thought. the spark involves defeating the EC police state, and returning them to Democracy...truer then it wa sin the past century....but still have internal sub-factions... like take Russia. when communism fell, Russia's status and stability felled too.... yet, still considered a powerful nation.

Then, there could be another timewarp, and the battle against the Progenitors - maybe some thirty years from now...? Maybe attracted by the internal Terran war that has put them in a state of confusion and weakness?

I discussed with Lonestar about getting the Hferhin involved at this point....being them who attracted the Proginators to Human space, going after the Manifolds.... only thing the Proginators would even consider smashing through humanity to get Chiron and Tau Ceti. The borg threat can start out when the Usurpers sends suicidal recon force to check out to see if Hferhin are telling the truth... force is defeated, but were able to send a comm message back home.

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


As i recall, i still not updated with the story... and if that is the truth, then Drecaille deserves to be shot.

-LMP

Here it is, page 8 of BAC:

[/QUOTE]


"By the time you receive this message, several Battle Fleets of our Navy have arrived to one of your border systems, Samnos. The Terran Alliance and it's Member States will assist us in this effort. "

Re-read this.... "By the time you receive this message..." meaning, CEO wouldn't be getting that message until the TA ships arrived at the target systems and started attacking.

now, kass, is this a future message EC will be sending? better be, because EC will not be informed of the targets until the ships starts leaving Sol. Also, EC only wants to be involved in the attack at Samnos?

-LMp

[GeneralTacticus]

I wouldn't think that the Progenitors would worry that much about Tau Ceti, the Manifold there flowered and then collapsed. Anyway, they do know where some of the other Manifolds are, what they really want is the Sixth Manifold, i.e. Chiron.

On that subject, what would the Chironians (and Terrans for that matter) do if the Progenitors attacked Chiron? Would they just let them have it? Or would they fight? In particular, would the Terrans really even care?

the spark involves defeating the EC police state, and returning them to Democracy...truer then it wa sin the past century

Why would TA care all that much about EC being a police state? I thought that the TA was meant to be mostly a defense organization... and wouldn't the other members be a little nervous about setting a precedent for doing that kind of stuff?

[GeneralTacticus]

Re-read this.... "By the time you receive this message..." meaning, CEO wouldn't be getting that message until the TA ships arrived at the target systems and started attacking.

I mentioned it because there has been quite a lot going on between that message being posted and the actual attack happening (Franky only just posted it).

[Mr. President]

Interlude: A Little Good News might seem familiar to veterans of the Chiron Chronicles. The idea was basically to give an idea of some stuff that's going on in Firaxis and the Republic at the moment. Sure, it's lazy. Sure, it's cheesy. Sure, it's a time-buying tactic while I think of what the hell kind of story should have the title "Red Planet, Green Planet".

The sentences following the Opinion headlines are actually subtitles, not opening sentences, just so no-one's confused. See if you can guess which ones are the conservative and which ones the liberal outlets. It's about as hard as shooting a 6' 5" man in a turban with a multiple rocket launcher from a range of two and three-eighth inches.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber
One question. Does the Hive intend to try to take the colony? I thought that the TA was going to take it. In an invasion such as this, you need a lot of cooperation and communication to pull it off or the Hive and the TA will end up running into each other. Not that I would mind, but I'm just letting you guys know.

that Hive force is small compare to how many ships TA will be sending....

Which system will be the most difficult to take, Samnos?

There will like 5 TAF Task Forces, 2-3 EC Battlesquadrons, 2 Mars Combine (Task Forces), 1 InEn Task Force (under TAF control), 2 Venus Strike Forces, and a few Scion frigate squadrons escorting their armed transports (they won't be active in the fleet combat).

second hardest system will be 3 TAF Task Forces, 1-2 EC Battlesquadron and 1 Mars Combine (taskforce), with some scion armed transports tagging along with the TAF task forces.

easiest system will get 2 TAF Task Forces, 1 Venus Strike Force, 1 EC Battlesquadron, 1 Mars Combine (Task Force) and 1 InEn Task Force.

most of Venus' non-cap ships are built on the planet, using very good pressure construction techs they developed themselves.... ships also look like football/old sci-fi ships shape jumbo rockets, launching off the planet like them. so their ships look quite odd compare to others....yet ships can take some beating. most of their main armaments are broadsides (medium to heavy plasma cannons) and anti-ship missiles and some heavy pulse cannons as forwards. They quite fast in sublight speeds, due to their augmented STL engines.

their capitals different in shape, but built in sections on the planet...and then attached and finished off in orbit.....but quite fast STL wise compare to the average TA capital ship. Venus' Navy specializes in strike and "straff" tactics....where they move in quickly super large fighters and start blasting with forwards...when they pass by or simply going through the enemies fleet, their deadly broadsides fires away.

-LMP

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by frankychan


Nod, thanx. True, I never thought about the Terrans wanting Samnos...must see how Kass wants things to play out.

If you guys are planning an invasion, you guys will confirm with me right? I just don't wanna have to find out Hive space has been invaded and have to post something up to try and "counter" it....but I doubt that's going to happen.

Anyway, I was going to use the liberation of Samnos (I'm using Hive propaganda terms.. ) to let readers see how Hive society develops.

I'm thinking that Samnos would be an example to the reader of how the Hive goes about establishing a foothold on a planet (whether colonized or conquered) and have readers infer the events on Samnos to how Hive cities are created.

You know I'm big on cooperation. Something like an invasion calls for lots of cooperation just like everyone is doing now. What the Spartans and Morganites have in mind is more of a political move with military implications. Yeah that's right a political move. But don't worry, Kessel and Morgan are just setting the piecies up. First we have to force the Terrans and Hive to actually work together instead of just show up at the same time. Translation, one of them may have come a long way for nothing. Unless they are willing to up the ante.

[Mellian]

For your first point, I was thinking that the Hive would "liberate" Samnos while the Terrans would take custody of Naxos. Kass has discussed how we would prevent our two fleets from miscommunicating by the Hive's ambassador to them.

may be fine with EC...but they are not leading the attack... have you two even considered informing TAF, ? Kass, please stop mixing up EC and TA interests please EC isn't running TA, they are simply a member who doesn't behave

I was thinking that if the Terrans do sue for peace and achieve it, Yang would effectively call the Samnos liberation a success and cease all hostility between the Hive and Morgan Interstellar...as well as open up a communications channel between Nwabudike and Yang. (i forget History Guy, did you want us to have an open channel?)

TAF troops will be going in and land on the planet...and won't allow Hive to get the colony. Besides, not like planetary warfare will be over in a day or few hours, geez Since TAF will not be expecting the Hive to show up, TAF may consider Hive a threat and blast them away

This way the Hive would free the oppressed citizens of Samnos, keep the colony world, and end the hostilities between our two governments and still have a (relatively) untarnished reputation. If Morgan decided to pursue hostilities, he would look like the bad guy.

Of course, I don't actually believe this and I think Yang is the wrong one here...but I'm trying to think of what Sheng-ji would do in this position.

What do you guys think? Devious?

Yang would consider the TAF as a bloody big factor!!! and the other member forces joining a long in the attacks.

-LMP

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Mr. President
Interlude: A Little Good News might seem familiar to veterans of the Chiron Chronicles. The idea was basically to give an idea of some stuff that's going on in Firaxis and the Republic at the moment. Sure, it's lazy. Sure, it's cheesy. Sure, it's a time-buying tactic while I think of what the hell kind of story should have the title "Red Planet, Green Planet".

The sentences following the Opinion headlines are actually subtitles, not opening sentences, just so no-one's confused. See if you can guess which ones are the conservative and which ones the liberal outlets. It's about as hard as shooting a 6' 5" man in a turban with a multiple rocket launcher from a range of two and three-eighth inches.

Nice

I was actually relieved that Sparta had not made the rap sheets this week.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber


The Morganites may not be your neighbors there when its all said and done

The Hive and the Terrans may end up going at it for Samnos before this is all said and done. Thankfully there are two moons around the gas planet. Just remember, the Spartans are very protective of the Coperate Sector. They see it as a very important investment. This will be enough for them to seek allies nearest the Hive where otherwise they would be cold to.


But is all good

Kessel should contact Kerensky.

-LMP

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Mellian


Kessel should contact Kerensky.

-LMP

Kessel is always open minded when it comes to new ways to put Yang where he belongs Would it be proper for Kessel to contact Kerensky and not a civilian authority? Is Kerensky on Earth or with this fleet?

[Mellian]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I wouldn't think that the Progenitors would worry that much about Tau Ceti, the Manifold there flowered and then collapsed. Anyway, they do know where some of the other Manifolds are, what they really want is the Sixth Manifold, i.e. Chiron.

according to BAC, Chiron had its flowering too....after the mass exodus of some factions to colonize other worlds. only a percentage of the remaining population on Chiron vanished.... later believed to have "transcended". Now, where did you hear that Tau Ceti simply collapse??? according to the game and manual, Chiron's Planetmind flowers every several thousand years...more or less.

On that subject, what would the Chironians (and Terrans for that matter) do if the Progenitors attacked Chiron? Would they just let them have it? Or would they fight? In particular, would the Terrans really even care?

Apocalyptic Battle, thats what Proginator will not simply go straight for Chiron (except the Recon Force), they will conquer every Human system towards Alpha Centauri...and if they then move for Tau Ceti from AC, then Sol is in the way..... also, TA will try to unite humanity against the proginator threat.

Why would TA care all that much about EC being a police state? I thought that the TA was meant to be mostly a defense organization... and wouldn't the other members be a little nervous about setting a precedent for doing that kind of stuff?

why can't you wait until we get to that point of the story, geeez
EC is a troublemaker, and doing things without discussing with the rest of TA. They are at risk to cause trouble like InEn did....so TAF doesn't want that, being the police (not the evil kind) of the Terran Alliance as well as the defenders, and general military force. Anyway, when until we get to the point of the Spark in the story.

-LMP

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I was actually relieved that Sparta had not made the rap sheets this week.

Yeah, there's not a lot of news out of Sparta this week. And strangely little about the Terran-Morgan war, I just realized.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber


Kessel is always open minded when it comes to new ways to put Yang where he belongs Would it be proper for Kessel to contact Kerensky and not a civilian authority? Is Kerensky on Earth or with this fleet?

Well, Kerensky is in Command of the TAF, which is leading the war as per their charter. TA Council may be slow with replies, which will have to change later on.

Kerensky is rarely on Earth...only to make visits to the TA Council and TAF Command (which is pretty much for show on Earth, as Command not trusting EC...so reallym yet secretly, located at Pluto). Kerensky is usually in his flagship...which will be staying in Sol... so won't be personally lead any of the attacks against the three morganite systems.

Kerensky would be annoyed with EC's relations with Hive, and slightly more so if Hive is at one of the target systems........and participating in the attack, as well as trying to gain control of one of the colonies..... Kerensky knows of Hive reputation and knows having relations with will attract bad relations with other factions... and TA trying to look good towards the peacekeepers won't happen.

wait, how would the Hive know the targets if EC won't know until the forces leave Sol for the targets?????? AHHHHHHHHH wish i am able to keep up and participate, my plans going screwy
-LMP

[GeneralTacticus]

according to BAC, Chiron had its flowering too....after the mass exodus of some factions to colonize other worlds. only a percentage of the remaining population on Chiron vanished.... later believed to have "transcended". Now, where did you hear that Tau Ceti simply collapse??? according to the game and manual, Chiron's Planetmind flowers every several thousand years...more or less.

I was talking about the Flowering collapsing, not the system. Anyway, like I said, the Progenitors would be much more interested in Chiron... it was the control centre for the Manifold experiment after all. If the Usurpers get Chiron, I don't even know if they would bother trying to conquer further except to enhance their position their... meanwhile they will be working around the clock to have their own Flowering there. The Caretakers, of course, will want to capture Tau Ceti too, since they want to control them all and make sure they are never used.

[History Guy]

Franky-- BIPPOL MURDERED hundreds of unarmed civilians! Grag! Remind me to put him on my 'to bump off' list...same thing with a certain Drone Senator as well...

Don't worry, Franky, we won't be invading you, the plan is much more subtle that than. I'm not sure that, with this plan going in effect immediately after Samnos falls, that the Terrans will have much time to go for Naxos...

Don't worry, the plan won't get a single Terran or Hiverian killed, but it will greatly confound them...

As for the battle, Franky, should we go after the battleship or not? It could take a few rounds, perhaps. How's about my orbital defense installations, you never mentioned them. They are now focusing on the advancing Terrans, and we'll see some flying ship busters soon...

Should I post next or should Kassiopeia?

Will Franky and/or Kassiopeia land troops on Samnos to take out the militia forces?

I will use the Spartan ships well, Sprayber, never you mind it. With them, a lot of Hive men will go down. We Morganites have three frigates sent by Admiral Merrill from Naxos to help out, but they won't be able to save Samnos. A lot of Terrans and Hiverians will go down taking Samnos, and relatively few Morganites, I'm afraid, will be there. When you guys get to Samnos, it'll be nothing more than a barren rock, and the same will be so of Naxos, we will have destroyed everything useful to Terra or Yang. All they will capture is a big rock.

LordMP-- Samnos isn't a system, it's a moon near the gas planet Crete (where Morgan gets most of the produce of this little system). In order to take the whole system, Kassiopeia will have to take Naxos as well, and that is heavily fortified and garrisoned. Furthermore, it's defense is lead by Admiral Merrill, who was the guy to suggest a raid on the blockade of Callisto, and so he favors guerrilla-like tactics, and will be hard to take out. Never fear, you guys will take the whole 'Cycladic System' as it is known, but at a fairly large price. I'm not sure if, with Sprayber's plan implemented, you'll want to go farther than Samnos and Naxos, however...

[History Guy]

OK, I'll post next and Kass can wrap it up with (possible) landings, and fighting off the remaining cannons and platforms and fighters. I'll try and get you guys a good post for all your efforts.

As for Franky's battleship, I'll put it out of action, but I won't destroy it, and Bippol will come out with...well, you can decide that!

[Kassiopeia]

I like how you phrase "Kass will take place x" - gives an addictive sense of power.

I'm in one heckuva hurry, but firsly, the Declaration of war from Drecaille to Morgan will be transmitted once the EC attack - support ships arrive in the system and are noticed by the Morganites. Heck, I might be as stupid as a lamp post, but Elise dear sure aint.

And sorry for interfering with TA matters - but, we need *someone* to take care of them.

Could have a schism between TA forces and GHE forces, with EC trying to keep it under control, OK? And I'll think of that space battle thing tomorrow, do as you best see fit.

[History Guy]

OK, Kassiopeia, I've got ya. I'll have that post done by this evening, ship busters and all...

[Silence]

Sorry for being out of the lope, but I am back. I do belive that nobody has been foolish enough to mess with my SoGs while I was gone right?