Rush Buy

Grrr · January 2, 2001, 18:28

Could Fireaxis please make rush buys instant (finished as soon as rush buy is clicked, not next turn), and allow for partial rush buys, (1/2 finish this, or buy enough so it is finished in X turns).
And make Wonders not rushable.

Mihai · January 4, 2001, 21:42

I never liked rush buy. It's so unrealistic. In Civ rush buy is rather instant buy. A better way would be a real rush buy : you pay double and it's done in half time as normal; you pay 4X and the time is /4 and so on. I think that something like that was in M.A.X.

DarkCloud · January 4, 2001, 21:48

Making them instant would be interesting but- Would it really be that correct for the people need time to collect the materials to build the stuff and, even if rushed- something that would take 10 years could not be completed in 1/2 a year.

shamrock · January 5, 2001, 00:47

I disagree with you, Grrr. Rushbuy sucks! Mihai's system is much a better proposal imo; it is more realistic and more strategically sound.

Grrr · January 5, 2001, 22:04

quote:

Originally posted by shamrock on 01-04-2001 11:47 PM
I disagree with you, Grrr. Rushbuy sucks! Mihai's system is much a better proposal imo; it is more realistic and more strategically sound.

True, but the Civ II style is usless.
Improve or Remove.

Mihai · January 5, 2001, 23:51

Exactly my point, DarkCloud!
'If 50 men buid a Granary in 1 year, how much time need 50000 men to do the same job?'

Adm.Naismith · January 8, 2001, 12:37

As any project manager know, if a woman need around nine months to make a baby, you can simply put on the same job nine women to have a newborn in only a month...

Joking apart, rush build a process must be limited, as I already suggested in old threads (sorry Grrr, I know it's the opposite of your opinion).

To gross simplify, any building process needs resources (e.g. workers, tools and materials) and production time. You can assign more of a component to partially reduce the need for another one, but you can never replace it completely. Try to build a wooden chair with plenty of workers but no wood! Actually time is something can't be bought, only used with better efficency.

I suggest to put a "roof" on rush building, something around 2/3 of total shields needed (but this limit must be better defined, for balancing reason).

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

hHydro · January 8, 2001, 17:53

Building structures is one of the aspects where you really DO have to suspend disbelieve and treat this like a GAME instead of reallity.

Just like it doesn't really take a destroyer 20 years (20 turns) to sail around the globe, it wouldn't (shouldn't) take 20 years to build a granary or library. But as a 'Game Mechanic', it works fine.

THUS, I also believe Mihai's concept is sound - Perhaps a slider bar under the current build window to either 2x or 4x your construction speed. Best of all, The COST of speeding up a particular project might be proportionally higher than the speed increase.

For example, If you are currently building at 10 'shields' a turn, and you need 100 shields to finish an improvement, you could choose to double construction speed at an additional cost of 10 gold/turn until it is done. If instead you decided to quadruple the build speed, it might come at a cost HIGHER than 4x the gold (to account for innefficiency - 'too many cooks in the kitchen' so to speak.)

Just one way to do it, but the underlying idea is that I also believe that you should not be able to rush-buy structures in one turn. Units maybe, but give them a 'morale penalty' for being so hastily assembled.

tniem · January 8, 2001, 18:16

There was a discussion about this back on the old Firaxis SMAC forum. In it basically said that it is only logical that it takes a long time to build say a library after paying for it.

The reason is you are not building one library, but a library system for the city.

So, in the B.C.'s you might have all of the resources and the books but it might take 20 years before multiple library buildings are built. While in the modern day it at the very least takes a couple of months to build the library, which is approximately one turn.

The author's point is even if you have the resources and have paid for it in the time period it will still take a turn to put it all together.

Zulu Elephant · January 9, 2001, 01:30

I dont think any of the improvements in civ2 need to take more than 1 year to collect so surely you can rush buy in a year (although you shouldnt be able to insta-buy)
Even with big projects like the Manhatten project, it wouldnt take more than a year to gather all the resources needed if you threw enough money at it
Maybe make certain things cost more to rush buy

Cannes · January 10, 2001, 03:36

I very much doubt that there were any extensive library systems in any ancient cities. The cities with libraries had one library per city.
In modern cities there are so many workers available that there isn't really any problems in coordinating the building of simultanious libraries all over a city (ie. library system)

About the rush buying I think it should work somewhere along these lines:

Say you want to build a knight
A knight requires 100 shields to build.
Your city produces 10 shield per turn.
You don't want to wait 10 turns to build/train the knight, infact you need it in 5 turns.
So you set the build speed to double the normal.
This would cost you in addition to the 10 shield production, 200 gold per turn. After 2 turns you find out that you are going to need it ASAP! You've finished 40 shields of production already and 60 to go.
So you decide to speed up the production to 6 times normal!
In the lase turn before completion you would then need to pay 500 X 6 = 3000 gold to complete the knight.
There should of course be a limit to how fast you could go, but you get the general idea.

Aredhran · January 10, 2001, 11:36

quote:

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 01-08-2001 11:37 AM
Try to build a wooden chair with plenty of workers but no wood!

What you could do though is kill some of the workers, and make a *bone* chair instead

Aredhran · January 10, 2001, 11:38

Assuming that the SMAC-style production rush system is kept, I'd like to see an extra button to provide "minimal rush for completion" (ie. takes into account the base production to calculate how much money is needed to complete the item)

Aredhran

The Mad Viking · January 10, 2001, 11:47

Aredran- I agree!

I'll be very happy when I don't have to switch to four units and buy each to minimize the rush cost.

AdamSmith- we can't wait a month for the baby- Get me another 31 women, and get me a baby in a week!

Adm.Naismith · January 10, 2001, 12:11

quote:

What you could do though is kill some of the workers, and make a *bone* chair instead

Aredhran, did you read Iain M.Banks book "Use of weapons"?

About "minimal rush for completion" it must be the effectof the "rush buy" button: I see no need for the current button effect, if not for making game harder for newbies

The Mad Viking, about your request

quote:

Get me another 31 women, and get me a baby in a week!

I suspect that if I'll give you 31+ women you can't have the baby (not in week, at least), but you'll enjoy the whole project in a way or another

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Imran Siddiqui · January 10, 2001, 14:01

You know, I think that every building should have a certain "cost" just to build it. I mean you have to buy the materials and pay the supervisors...