Succession Game V: The Empire of Ra - Page 5

Locutus · July 19, 2002, 19:01

Nice

With only 2 Celtic cities left, looks like I can move in for the kill (assuming enough reinforcements are available)...

Gazablanca · July 20, 2002, 09:49

Good story Hermann sir....looks like the Celts will be extinct soon.....

Immortal Wombat · July 20, 2002, 19:05

I got sent the file... I'm forwarding to Locutus. I can't play this round, I'm away until Friday again

til then, CYA

Hermann the Lombard · July 22, 2002, 19:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Gazablanca
Good story Hermann sir....looks like the Celts will be extinct soon.....

I simply used the tools you handed me (after almost breaking the blade on the Rock of Kells).

Wombat: I sent you a copy as well as Locutus just in case his email was still screwy.

Locutus: There were a lot of units in Kells. Presumably some of those are now scattered in the field, but there must be at least seven more in Kells, so you will need those reinforcements. No idea if Armagh is well-defended; I flipped a coin and went for Carmarthen. Got lucky.

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 07:02

I can play again because I finally have my new PC!

:party:

It took quite some effort to get Cradle v1.2 working on this PC (it's no longer available for download anywhere), but I got it working in the end and I played my first few turns. Without wanting to take away too much of the suspense on whether or not I could take out the Celts, I think I can savely say it won't take too long anymore and I'm already seeing myself forced to start making decisions about the next war. However, I'm in a of a dilemma here: what should this next war be?

On the one hand we have our long-time enemy, the Arabs, who stand between us and rule over the entire southern hemisphere and on the other hand we have the Yamato, who border on our (soon to be?) northern, former-Celtic cities and who, although I haven't seen them yet, could pose a serious threat to the security of these cities. When we take on the Yamato however, war with Rome and possibly others might be inevitable, delaying the conflict with the Arabs even further and possibly even throwing us in a 2 or 3 front war (Arabs, Yamato, Romans, possibly even Etruscans (although that would mostly be a naval war)). Who should we attack? Should we attack (or fall back to a peaceful existance and rely on science/diplomacy)? My heart wants to attack the Arabs, to gain full control of the south and be able to launch invasions up north from there, but my head tells me that the threat of the Yamato is far more serious than that from the Arabs will ever be.

So Locutus V, Apolyton XXII, Supreme Ruler of Kemet, Sacred Emissary of Ra, from the House of the Founder and the Court of Hammurabi, calls upon you, the Holy Counsel of Wise Priests of Apolyton, to advise him in this matter...

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 07:24

BTW, in case you need a reminder, here's a map of what the strategic situation looked like in the beginning of my turn (sorry, it looks like crap but currently the only only graphics program I have installed is MS Paint, haven't had time yet to install something better).

Hermann the Lombard · July 23, 2002, 11:30

Locutus, Wombat, Gazablanca,
Friends, Egyptians, Countrymen!

(sorry, wrong play)

My approach here is to look at the technologies and governments that we want to develop and use, then see what makes the most geopolitical sense.

When I passed the game along, we were on the verge of City State and already had 11 of the allowed 15 cities. By the time we finish off the Celts we will be near the city limit, and likely we will want to place at least one more city in a location of our own choosing. In tech, we will soon have mobile tactics and mounted archers.

My idea would be to set a goal of achieving Tribunal Empire with a large force of Cataphracts, and then conquer to the T.E. limit of 30 cities. Until then, I would concentrate on building up our science (by way of Republic) and our trade (we now have zero caravans) so that we have a tech edge and an economic edge on our rivals. With those we can defend what we have, punish the aggressors, and make an interim expansion to 20 cities under Republic (if we choose).

Regarding tech, I would want to have cataphracts before anyone else gets men-at-arms. That's a "window" where offense is distinctly stronger than defense. [Catapults, boy! Don't forget catapults!]

In the short term, this means I would NOT attack the Arabians (however much I want to), and I would try to make peace with them and trade with them. [I suppose this means I shouldn't have used the Prophet against their cities, but hey, a deben is a deben.] We may be able to set up trade routes with Arabia that are relatively hard to pirate (unlike trade routes with our Byzantine friends).

Your thoughts?

Some obvious tactical notes: we need to know what's "in the black" north and west of Gaul. We might even pick up some tech from ruins. We have to assume that the Yamato will attack, so we need strong, mobile defensive forces and good roads (we have interior lines but rather indefensible borders). It would be nice to sieze the choke point on the peninsula far to the west of Tanis. The Arabs weren't there when the Prophet went through, but they may be there now. That would be a good point for a canal-zone city.

I almost hate to invest resources in ships and naval tech, but given this map, we need to be able to defend our coastline and our trade routes, and we'll have lots of opportunities to invade (and harass) by sea.

All for now.

-- HtL

Gazablanca · July 23, 2002, 13:12

I'm with you on the choke-point idea....although the city would be pretty far out from our borders,it could act as an early warning for an Arabian attack.It would stop their pesky settlers coming in to encroach on our land also

As for the next war,I think we should bolster our defences in the Northern cities and only attack when we ourselves are attacked,this attacker probably being the Yamato.Now we have quite a few cities,we should give the warring a rest for a while and concentrate on bolstering our science and research to try and catch up with the leading nations.Having said this,it is also important not to drop our guard,so an increase in our navy to defend our coastlines is also a good idea

Thanx,
Gazablanca

Locutus · July 23, 2002, 14:55

Ah, I was *waaaayyy* ahead of you with the chokepoint city, I already knew I wanted to build a city there as soon as that point was reconned... Since noone else did it so far, I (once again) started building a Settler in Tanis for this purpose... (but Gaz is right: it would be isolated and hard to defend, even with fortresses closing the gap).

Looking everything over again, I have to agree with both of you, peace is the way to go since better governments are still far away. I don't mind going over the city limit myself, I usually stretch it by 50% (so when 15 is the limit, I aim to control 22 odd cities), but in this game I'm not the only player, so a bit of conservatism would be in order; plus when conquering either the Arabs or the Yamato, we would be getting awfully close to that (stretched) limit... Very well, in that case I have some city queues to change

Hermann the Lombard · July 24, 2002, 12:23

I'd bet that we've all had our eyes on that choke point since it was first revealed. I keep looking at the intervening terrain and grumbling. If we don't grab it soon the Arabs certainly will (if they haven't already).

I like Gazablanca's idea of counterpunching, attacking only when attacked. I often used that in Civ2/Civ3, especially with aggressive neighbors like the Zulus and the Germans. Make peace and keep the peace, waiting for them to attack me. Counterattack and take a city or three, let them sue for peace. Repeat.

I don't like going that far beyond the city limits (I'm just an urban kind of guy, I guess), but hey, if you build too many I can just give them away...

Aren't you glad that I'm going LAST in each round?

-- HtL

p.s. Ignorant question: in CTP2/Cradle, is it true that fortresses can be placed outside borders, but cannot be placed inside someone else's borders? I wanted to do the latter in SG-VI; of course I'm glad the AI can't do it to US!

Gazablanca · July 24, 2002, 13:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard

p.s. Ignorant question: in CTP2/Cradle, is it true that fortresses can be placed outside borders, but cannot be placed inside someone else's borders? I wanted to do the latter in SG-VI; of course I'm glad the AI can't do it to US!

Yep,it's true sir.What I've found is that you have got to have a unit in the area where you wish to place the fortress,and then do so.....the extra territory is handy to stop other empires settlers and units coming to claim the area.At least I think you've got to have a unit in the area to construct a fortress........

Martin Gühmann · July 24, 2002, 13:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard
p.s. Ignorant question: in CTP2/Cradle, is it true that fortresses can be placed outside borders, but cannot be placed inside someone else's borders? I wanted to do the latter in SG-VI; of course I'm glad the AI can't do it to US!

That's the reason why we have the FAQ see question #15 . At least I see that this post definatly needs an edit.

-Martin

Locutus · July 24, 2002, 18:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard
Aren't you glad that I'm going LAST in each round?

No, actually, that leaves me to clean up your mess

Anyway, here is my account. The savegame will be sent to IW in a moment. Spot the famous passage and win a three week, no-expenses paid trip to the real Memphis

---

Locutus V, Apolyton XXII

1545 BC: After having disposed of Her-mann VI, the young Locutus informs his uncle of the vacancy in the palace. Instantly Hammurabi replies that he will back a claim to the throne by his bold nephew. So a few days later Locutus is crowned as Apolyton XXII, with the traditional /reloadslic ceremony. Shrewdly, Locutus manages to lay the blame of the death of Her-mann on Obelix, a stone worker from Kells. The new Apolyton swears that he and his uncle shall not rest until every Celt has been submitted and Obelix and all his family executed.
So immediately the army of Nun embarks on the tranport ships of the Great Fleet and depart for Gaul. Also, the Celtic forces between Cardiff and Carthamen are completely annihilated by Hammurabi's forces and Sceptre's Jewel, without significant casualties. In the meantime, indulgences are sold in Jiddah, where also a large army of at least 80,000 men is spotted on the move. In Egypt in the meantime, a road is constructed that connects Thebes to the rest of the Egyptian road network near Aphroditopolis. Also, on two different locations extensive farming is taking place, because Locutus realizes Thebes has the allure of a capital and should quickly grow as large as possible.

1530 BC: Not wanting to give the Celts any time to recover, Hammurabi immediately marches on Armargh. Some of his staff officers dare doubt the general's wisdom: an attack on Armargh leaves Cardiff and Carthamen wide open for attack and could severely weaken the strength of the Egyptian attack force. The officers are summarily executed. According to the royal statisticians, the attack on Armargh meets a defensive force of 50,000 men, and 40,000 out of 90,000 Egyptians die a glorious death. Meanwhile, indulgences are sold in Baghdad, 100 Gold is sent to both the Byzantines and the Etruscans and a riot takes place in Bubastis, which is crushed by Bast's army.

1515 BC: Angry about the forceful way the riots in Bubastis were suppressed, the people of Abydos and Thebes also fill the streets of their cities. This too, is violently crushed by Locutus's forces. 100 Gold is given to the Etruscans, in the hope of making a future map-exchange possible. Tanis delivers a regiment of Charioteers and starts gathering men brave enough to explore the Levant, the area between Egypt and Arabia, filled with dark woods, treacherous marshes and rugged hills. In Gaul, a regiment of Hoplites is being rushed for completion in the freshly-conquered Armargh. Hammurabi immediately starts marching on the last Celtic outpost: the mighty city of Kells. By now noone dares doubt Hammurabi's foolish decision to leave Armargh behind him without a garrison to prevent the Celtic there from revolting. At the same time, the army of Nun lands south of Kells and a regiment of Hoplites is founded in Cardiff and immediately sent to Kells as well, together with the garrisson of Carthamen. As many troops as can possibly be spared are being sent to the vicinity of Kells, where rumours suggest that the Celts too are preparing for their last stand.

1500 BC: an Etruscan delegation arrives in Memphis, requesting Egyptian maps and offering Etruscan copies in return. Locutus considers taking the Etruscan maps by force and killing the diplomats, but in the end decides the Etruscans might come in handy one day and gives them a warm welcome with the finest Egyptian wine and women instead. He even decided to give them 100 bars of gold as a parting gif when the delegation leaves. Barbarians are spotted outside Crocodilopolis and the army of Osiris moves in for the attack. Aphroditopolis completes a Chariot and starts building a Forge. Heliopolis readies a regiment of Archer and continues to train more. In Gaul in the meantime, Armargh erects a garrison of Hoplites out of loyal Celts, and starts training others to become Archers. The troop buildup around Kells continues and the deployment of the troops as a preparation for the oncoming battle takes place.

1490 BC: Finally the attack on Kells takes place. The men are extremely motivated because they want nothing more than to revenge Her-mann's cowardice assassination. The city is heavily defended, more than 80,000 have manned the walls of Kells, but Hammurabi rides back and forth across the ranks and spurs his men forward. Hammurabi came very close to losing his life. Hammurabi was the first one up the ladders onto the wall of the city of the Celts, and then he jumped down into the town with only two of his guards behind him. Before the rest of the Egyptians could catch up and save him, Hammurabi had taken an arrow in the ribs and had been knocked dizzy by a club. He was unconscious when they carried him away, and he fainted when the doctors cut out the arrow. Rumors spread that Hammurabi was dead. When these rumors reached Memphis, Locutus immediately ordered a whole valley near Heliopolis to be redecorated to become the burial site of Hammurabi, and later himself. This valley would come to be known as Valley of the Kings. Fortunately though, Hammurabi is not dead and quickly recovers from his injury. As he is doing so, his loyal staff officers continue the attack on Kells and at the cost of only 20,000 Egyptian lives it eventually falls: the Celtic empire is no more, Gaul is ours!

1480 BC: 100 Gold is given to the Etruscans, although they reject a non-tresspassing treaty. Indulgences are sold in Mecca. After consultation with the Holy Counsel of Wise Priests of Apolyton, Locutus orders the troops that have survived the battle of Kells to spread out all over Gaul. Most are ordered to take garrison in the cities, some others are ordered to start exploring. The mountains north of Gaul, the Alps are explored by a small expedition of Hoplites. The area west of Gaul consists of inpenetrable jungle and marshes, and only the bravest and most experienced men dare explore it. Hammurabi joins the expedition but is still too weak from his injury to lead the expedition himself. Therefore he appoints the bravest of his staff officers, a half-Celt who would become known as Oerdin the Explorer, to lead the mission. The vast landmass of jungle and forest would later be named after him: Oerdin Peninsula.

1470 BC: Reports of an earthquake near Tripoli reach memphis. The Barbarians still ravaging the lands outside Crocodilopolis are destroyed by Osiris. Cardiff builds Hoplite and start constructing Granaries. Mecca is converted: our phophet actually succeeded in turning some of those heathen Arabs into loyal Ra-worshippers. They Arabs are grateful to have found the Truth about the heavens above and send caravans of gold towards Memphis.

1460 BC: The concept of a city State discovered and the government immediately enacted by Locutus. He hates to have to give up some of his power to the cities but he realizes that this is the only way to ensure the empire can be run smoothly and efficiently. Locutus now orders his priests to start inventing a way to make payments go easier, something called Currency. This should boost the gold output of the empire and allow the Apolyton to spend more resources on research. Barbarians spotted outside Sais.

1450 BC: Abydos builds an Archer and starts a Forge. Reforms take place in Mecca: all Ra-worshippers are killed by the cruel Arab sultan. Our prophet manages to escapt to Jiddah, but before he can collect followers around him he is captured and stoned. The high priests of Memphis cry out for vengeance, and when Locutus refuses to mount an expedition, they forge a plan to get rid of this Apolyton.

Locutus · July 24, 2002, 18:59

The new infrastructural works near the fast-growing Heliopolis:

Locutus · July 24, 2002, 19:00

We're starting to catch up on the power graph...

Hermann the Lombard · July 25, 2002, 10:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus

No, actually, that leaves me to clean up your mess

Well, you cleaned up Gaul quite nicely.

Quote:

Not wanting to give the Celts any time to recover, Hammurabi immediately marches on Armargh [leaving] Cardiff and Carthamen wide open for attack Hammurabi immediately starts marching on the last Celtic outpost: the mighty city of Kells. . . . By now no one dares doubt Hammurabi's foolish decision to leave Armargh behind him without a garrison to prevent the Celtic there from revolting. . . . Finally the attack on Kells takes place. Hammurabi came very close to losing his life. . . . [H]is loyal staff officers continue the attack on Kells and at the cost of only 20,000 Egyptian lives it eventually falls: the Celtic empire is no more, Gaul is ours!

Boldly done, Sir! A mighty general is Hammurabi and a wise ruler is Locutus...and I note that the nephew continues to keep his uncle well away from the capital. Coincidence? I think not.

Hermann the Lombard · July 25, 2002, 11:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

That's the reason why we have the FAQ see question #15 . At least I see that this post definatly needs an edit.

-Martin

My post, or Q15? I got a little confused, but I "knew" I could place fortresses outside my borders. Then when I tried to do so I got nothing but red. My real question was whether the latter was because of "other people's borders." If so, Q15 does need an edit.

You know, I didn't even think to check the FAQ. Guess I started to think that I know (or rather, remember) everything in there. Maybe we need another thread for FFA: Frequently Forgotten Answers.

Martin Gühmann · July 25, 2002, 12:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard
My post, or Q15? I got a little confused, but I "knew" I could place fortresses outside my borders. Then when I tried to do so I got nothing but red. My real question was whether the latter was because of "other people's borders." If so, Q15 does need an edit.

With editing I meant here that the answer contained some grammer mistakes (missing words and so on). It is now fixed for your question, you can't place tile improvements in enemy territory. With enemy I mean here everyone who is not your ally. So get an alliance and you can place tile improvments in the whole territory of your ally.

-Martin

edit just added your question to the FAQ. It is now Q45.

Locutus · July 25, 2002, 20:04

So, noone spotted the famous passage yet? I'm disappointed

(of course, the names were altered to protect the privacy of those involved

)

Gazablanca · July 27, 2002, 03:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
So, noone spotted the famous passage yet? I'm disappointed

(of course, the names were altered to protect the privacy of those involved

)

You have me stumped sir.......

Locutus · July 28, 2002, 18:31

Bah! Culture barbarians

Hint: the original name was not Hammurabi but Alexander (I'm making this way too easy).

Immortal Wombat · July 29, 2002, 13:46

In 1490?

______________________________

Sorry this is late, I couldn't get onto 'Poly earlier, it was down or something

I sent the file to Gaza though.

1450BC: The priest's plot to find a new Apolyton began in earnest, and they soon found one who they thought could be controlled easily. The nation was in anarchy, and they doubted whether this boy would emerge as a strong leader. He gained the nickname among the people "Wombat", after the man who had begun the triumphant war effort in Gaul. But this was not a term of love, but of mockery. Would that this boy live up to the acheivements of his ancestors.
And as such, he was placed in the seat of power in Memphis, with the high priests behind him, "advising" ever deed.

Thus for the next two decades little was achieved in the united lands of Egypt and Gaul, the Empire of Ra. Of note, Hathor's Arm smote a barbarian slaveraider who was making a stand on a mountain-top to the souh east. Other than this, there was little activity in the centre of the empire, and things progressed as they always did, despite the lawlessness.

In 1420BC however, the Apolyton decided his long years of pondering had produced a way in which he might take charge of the empire. He divided power up between the cities, each installing a governer (not mayors though, Ra forbid!), to enforce the rule of the Apolyton Wombat. Wombat himself takes place as chancellor of the Cities Council, and Governor of Memphis.

After his early years as puppet ruler, Wombat is fed up of oppression, and seeks to end suffering. As such, his reign shall be peaceful, and devoted to the furthering of mankind's understanding of the world.

To do this, he institutes larger food rations for everyone, puts a greater tax on them, to aid the science efforts, and increases emphasis on local voluntary work.

In Rome, Livius builds the Valley of the Kings. It appears the old Apolyton Locutus, and General Hammurabi will have to find another location to lay their bodies.
Wombat declares that the Temple of Solomon being built in Memphis shall be a shrine and mausoleum for the Apolyton's before and after himself - Locutus included; and that great generals of the Empire can be honoured by being laid to rest there also.

1410BC: Citizens of Kells lead a riot, involving six cities. Wombat readjusts his social engineering project to pre-1420 levels. However, in Memphis, the voluntary work payed off, with a new communal farm, and a mine shaft, providing 200 jobs, and more production and commerce.

1400BC: Wombat declares an end-of-century celebration, and everyone gets drunk off their heads.

1390BC: Kells riots again, Wombat orders a shrine be built to the Gods to spare the lawless citizens. A warrior on the Japanese border espies a large road network in Japan, and suggests that an army of chariots would make easy progress across the flat terrain. Wombat has his tongue cut out for speaking against peace. He then has him write out a detailed plan of how "in different circumstances", such an attack could take place.

1380BC: The wise men of Egypt discover a means of barter known as currency - it is designed to make trade more easy for the common man, and more productive to the whole of Egypt. If they'd have seen where it was heading, they'd have melted their groats.

The Apolyton then assigns them a task to devise a method of speeding ships across the sea without hard tiring rowing from teams of slaves. The concept of sails in presented, and Wombat agrees to further research.

Tanis builds a nomad, and a detatchment of troops from Sobeck (known as Sobeck's Spear) act as escort to the nomad, which is entrusted with the task of settling the chokepoint that separates the northern and southern seas.

In Oerdin's peninsula, Hammurabi has mapped from shore to shore, and boards a coracle for home.

1370BC: Byzantine offer to exchange maps. As a pair of peace-loving peoples, the Apolyton agreeably accepts the Byzantine offer, and pledges to sent a diplomat to establish closer relations with them. Kells, as the closest city is "persuaded" by Council vote to build the coracle and train the diplomat necessary for his cross-oceanic mission.
The Byzantines have deep water ships, and their maps included detailed charts of the sea floor, and the treasures it contains.

Later that year, Solomon's Temple is completed in Memphis. There is much rejoicing, and the former Apolyton's mummified bodies are removed to the pyramid at the heart of the temple.

1360BC: A further year of rejoicing.

1350BC: The wise men have perfected sailing. (30 years to figure out a piece of cloth and a couple of sticks

) A by-product is the discovery that there are a great many more fish in the sea than was originally thought, and nets are patented, that can catch many fish for he consumtion of Egyptian citizens. New boats, that use these "sails" are known as biremes, and promise to provide a valuable addition to the navy.

In what is to become his last act as Chancellor, Wombat declares the next project to be Cartography, to formalise the maps that we have been drawing up for the best part of five a half thousand years.

On cue, Tanis completes a coracle, and Wombat embarks on it, to seek the south pole, and plant the Egytian flag there, that all might know of the greatness of the Empire of Ra.
The people of memphis are left needing a governor, and a chancellor - and the bellicose Hammurabi is returning home...

Immortal Wombat · July 29, 2002, 14:44

Not much to show, but here's the screenie.

Hermann the Lombard · July 29, 2002, 15:24

O Mighty Marsupial! Three things I beg of you!

Tell us why you fled the Empire before the return of Hammurabi! No good can come of this! Generations of Apolytons (well, two) kept him safely abroad.

Tell us that the nomad is heading west, and not east!

Tell us how to display the Wonders on the map as you did! (I lost track of that thread over on the mods side of 'Poly.)

-- HtL

Correction (having ducked over to "Mods" and back): how do we display the Wonders in CRADLE?

Immortal Wombat · July 29, 2002, 18:49

Oh great Lombardian one (I dunno, I just make this up as I go along...), these answers I speak unto you.

Hammurabi the great general grows weary of Gaul, and is eager to seek out new battles, or possibly a cosy assignment defending some petty chokepoint frontier city... If he dies, we get an unhappiness bump.

The nomad is heading east. The scribe was drunk, and summarally executed.

That wonder was edited on using the tools of the Gods themselves: PSP7.
To make wonders appear in Cradle, wait for Dave to make the neccessary file alterations. For now, visi-wonders are only available in vanilla CtP2. DOWNLOAD.

J Bytheway · July 29, 2002, 19:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Oh great Lombardian one (I dunno, I just make this up as I go along...)

You should check the definition of Lombard on dictionary.com - you can get plenty of inspiration - call him Masterful Banker, Stunningly Bearded One, or Great Germanic

. Though I admit none of those sound particularly insightful.

Hermann the Lombard · July 30, 2002, 12:07

Well, the meaning of Lombard that I had in mind was "Germanic tribe, one of the Suevi associated with the Marcomanni, invaded Italy 568AD, conquered most of it, defeated in turn by Charlemagne in the early 8th Century." It was King Alboin who led the invasion of Italy, Hermann was earlier, and may have been the Germanic name of Arminius who massacred three Roman legions in the Teutoburger Wald...but more specifically the first King I had in my first game of Lords of the Earth (Lords 27).

Immortal Wombat · July 30, 2002, 19:23

I remembered yesterday what meaning for Lombard I had heard previously...

Loads
Of
Money
But
A
Real
D!ickhead

So I'll go along with your Germanic explaination

Hermann the Lombard · July 31, 2002, 11:43

Can't be me; I don't have loads of money.

Gazablanca · August 1, 2002, 04:03

Just a quick note to say I'll be submitting my transcript and save game on Saturday or Sunday,due to extra work and social commitments....only a day or two late,so I hope you lot don't beat me up for it.......