I really, really wish I knew what Firaxis was doing wrong, right now, as we speak...

[EnochF]

I know, I know. I'm a cynic.

But I don't want to throw in my two cents after the game is released, with my handful of suggestions on how the game could have been a little better just by making some tiny changes here and there... changes that can't be made in the customization rules.

Like, what game statistics are included? Is there an overpopulation penalty? Crime? Corruption? Disease and health? Decadence? What are the values generated in a city? Food, trade, and production, probably, but have they added a new value? What is it? If we knew what sort of game values there were, we might be able to suggest ideas for City Improvements, Tile Improvements, Units, Governments, and all sorts of things that somebody might have overlooked.

Are there Feats of Wonder, as in CTP2? What are they? Are there goodie huts randomly generated on the map? What special resources are there? Are they fairly realistic, or are they dippy ones like in CTP? Do you have the option of naming landmarks? What about claiming territory and then fighting over it, diplomatically and militarily, with another civ? Have they decided to include only very near future tech, or do they look a full century ahead? What future techs did they choose? Are they feasible, or are they dippy like in CTP?

How are the cities set up? 21-square areas, with one citizen per square, as usual? Or are they tweaking the system slightly, maybe by expanding the city radius in the late game, or allowing two citizens to work a square?

What about tile improvements? Have they stuck with the Settler unit, or have they gone with CTP's "public works" system? Or have they adopted a compromise between the two? Will there be late-game roads with unlimited movement? (If not, will there be a way in the editors to define a road improvement with unlimited movement?)

What about combat? I mean, I'm a civilized Civ player most of the time. But I know this: Obsolete military units should fight at a severe penalty against modern units. Has somebody finally implemented this feature? I've got to know! Are the units going to stack? Are air units finally going to be immune to spears and pikes? I don't care so much about balancing the units... that can be fixed by editing the stats. I am slightly worried about the approach.

What about corporations, as proposed by Youngsun? Is this a pipe dream, or is it something that can really be implemented? Even if it's not in the main game, will the customization features and editors allow us to include them? Same with religion: Pipe dream, or reasonable expectation? All it would take is some recycling of the Social Engineering rules for Alpha Centauri. And it wouldn't even have to be implemented in the actual game, as long as the feature could used for scenarios and modpacks.

AAAAGH, it's driving me nuts. I mean, we're all creative people, and we can come up with Civ ideas for months. In fact, we did, about a year ago. But in some ways, accepting some limitations may have the effect of allowing our creativity to be more focused. If we only knew... if we only knew...

SOMEBODY JUST TELL ME! I'M DYIN' OVER HERE!

[yin26]

While the title is a bit scary, we all see your point. This is one of those "magic" moments in gaming...waiting to see if your trusted company pulls through.

All I can say is:

1) We gave more feedback than I think has ever been given for any computer game in history (honestly, I think that's true).

2) The beta testing on this baby might be far more open. Operative word here being "might." In which case, while we obviously couldn't call for major changes, at least dozens of minor annoyances could be fixed and small but important features could well make it in. At least I hope we are given this opportunity some how...at the very least to check system compatability issues.
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited January 11, 2001).]

[Cannes]

As far as combat and the obsolence of units, it would be great if they looked at Wes' medieval modpack for Ctp. I can't stress enough how well done that modpack is. There are a few minor bugs in it, but nothing that takes much away from the overall experience. In this modpack you will be in real trouble if you are defending with units that are one age behind. If your units are two ages behind you might as well not have anything defending your city. It works really well! Another thing he has done to make it balance off a little better is introducing a standard defense militia in each city (Which grows in numbers with unit size). This militia can't be removed from the city and it upgrades outomaticly over time. I don't quite remember the order or units, but it's something along the lines of : Ancient = Phlalanx, medieval = arqebuzer, Renaissance = musketeer, Mordern = machine gunner, Genetic = marine, Diamond = plasmatica.
Related to this is another thing I would like to see in Civ3. Being able to globally upgrade your units like in SMAC/X. So if you have enough money and you just invented the pikeman defensive units. Upgrade your ex. 20 phalanx units to pikemen by a few mouse clicks. It would maybe cost something like 250 gold per unit adding up to 5000 gold, (Quite alot in early renaissance of a Ctp game)

[Grandpa Troll]

Ahh..here comes the Newer, Improved..somewhat Semi-Intelleigent sounding Troll..now that being said...

I am what one might call an Empire Monger!..I love HUGE Empires..I am however somewhat baffled that (And I am speaking on CTP:2..)..that the best Form of Government is Virtual Democracy..with 60 Cities being the Max..I mean..MAN..I wish there was a Govt..form..(Maybe there is???)..that would allow you to increase to 100+ Cities..like..the People...ENJOY!!..your Prowess..at Expansion..like that of the Roman Empire Times..whereas It stretched Far and Wide..Just a suggestion...Ill have to RE-Accquaint myself with CIV game..maybe I am behind times??..I just think since we are all using various Gameplay and Empire Building Styles..Why..should we put a lid on Expansion size??

I do understand that you would have distance from Capital issue..but beyond that..A person should be able to exceed any # of Cities limit...

Just a point to ponder over at Firaxis.....

H
I
N
T
!!!!

Have a Blessed Day

Troll

P.S.

Good Day Yin..Hope all is swell with you my friend!