March 10, 2002, 07:47
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#31
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Why do leftists always resort to violence and insults?
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Maybe because our countries are full so there is no room left for baldheads marching thru our streets? Or maybe would-be nazi's scare the s**t out of us? Or...
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March 10, 2002, 08:03
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#32
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Prince
Local Time: 22:30
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Hueij
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Why do leftists always resort to violence and insults?
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Maybe because our countries are full so there is no room left for baldheads marching thru our streets? Or maybe would-be nazi's scare the s**t out of us? Or...
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I knew that the VB was being demonized by the Dutch media, but not that it was this bad. 
__________________
In een hoerekotje aan den overkant emmekik mijn bloem verloren,
In een hoerekotje aan den overkant bennekik mijn bloemeke kwijt
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March 10, 2002, 09:33
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#33
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King
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I'm not sure you can call them extreme-right just because of this one issue - I think they are a mix of left-wing populism and right-wing populism.
Anyway, I'm certainly not voting for them. The Netherlands are (is?) not full. There are still trees everywhere 
That is, unless their election program turns out to be extremely sensible (they still don't have one AFAIK). But I doubt it.
BTW, the article said the current government is center-left. I would call it more center-center than center-left, and many people that I know would call it far-right (not that that's realistic).
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March 10, 2002, 09:50
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#34
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Emperor
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Look, Fortuyn may have shocked some people with the outcome of the municipal elections, but he won in Rotterdam, and as we all know, people in Rotterdam are stupid and complete bastards; so there isn't that much to worry about.
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March 10, 2002, 10:18
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#35
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King
Local Time: 22:30
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from the article:
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Islam, he says, is a "backward culture"
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Actually, he called the Islam "achterlijk", which also means "retarded". When refering to "backward", people usually use "achtergebleven".
from this thread:
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Maybe we could ship both groups(Vlaams Blok & Leefbaar Nederland) to a little island (mururoa or so)
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Pim Fortuyn was kicked out of LN. He started his own party, Lijst Pim Fortyun. He's still in Leefbaar Rotterdam though.
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same applies with that dutch guy. question: does he got any sits in the dutch parliement? answer?
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Neither LN, not Pim's own party got any seats in Parliament cause this the first election they're in. Recent polls do give both parties somewhere between the 5 and 20 seats (out of 150).
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Yessirre! I sure am sad I live in America, where we are heartless uncaring people, who allow extreme right wing groups get over a third of the votes in major cities...
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LN is centre-right for American standards (and Dutch as well). Pim Fortuyn is extreme-right for Dutch (and european) standards, but would be medium right in the US. Furthermore, Pim's liberal (him being pro gay, pro choice, etc) unlike American right wingers. Also, the Republican Party would be considered extreme right here probably.
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I see Mark's Non-mention of this charecter as support of him.
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Hardly. Though some people I know are. I myself am going to vote on the Greens, and voted on a local (cente-left) party in local elections (my mom's in the party, and might get a seat in the city council).
The good thing about Pim is that he's stealing away votes from the VVD (liberal right wing free marketeers). This makes the chances of a cente-left coalition all that more likely. I'm hoping on a Labour+Greens+Christian Democrats coalition myself.
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as we all know, people in Rotterdam are stupid and complete bastards
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 Go Amsterdam!!
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I knew that the VB was being demonized by the Dutch media, but not that it was this bad.
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VB are a bunch of Fascists. I live only 4 km from the border, and my sis is studying in Ghent and my cousin in Liege. They aren't demonised by the dutch media, they just are plain fascists.
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Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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March 10, 2002, 11:42
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#36
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King
Local Time: 21:30
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Zoppy:
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Quote:
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Look, Fortuyn may have shocked some people with the outcome of the municipal elections, but he won in Rotterdam, and as we all know, people in Rotterdam are stupid and complete bastards; so there isn't that much to worry about.
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As we all know, people in the rest of the Netherlands are also stupid and complete bastards, so your conclusion does not follow.
(Yes, even in Amsterdam. Especially in Amsterdam :P )
Saint Marcus:
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Actually, he called the Islam "achterlijk", which also means "retarded". When refering to "backward", people usually use "achtergebleven".
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But it seems obvious that he meant "backward" in this case.
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The good thing about Pim is that he's stealing away votes from the VVD (liberal right wing free marketeers). This makes the chances of a cente-left coalition all that more likely. I'm hoping on a Labour+Greens+Christian Democrats coalition myself.
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I think anything would be better than that. Perhaps even Fortuijn.
As if Greens and Christian-democrats aren't bad enough separately on their own 
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March 10, 2002, 11:52
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#37
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King
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Quote:
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I think anything would be better than that. Perhaps even Fortuijn.
As if Greens and Christian-democrats aren't bad enough separately on their own
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CDA is inderdaad klote, maar er zijn weinig andere oplossingen. VVD+CDA+D66 is niet genoeg. Ook VVD+CDA+LN is niet genoeg. VVD+CDA+Fortuyn waarschijnlijk net, maar is wel een heel krappe meerderheid. Paars III heeft waarschijnlijk ook te weinig zetels. Alleen PvdA+CDA+D66 of PvdA+CDA+GL blijft over. Behalve als je een monstercoalitie wilt van PvdA+CDA+VVD, maar das al helemaal niets. En een 4 partijen coalitie is ook niet echt handig.
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Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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March 10, 2002, 12:24
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#38
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dr.Oogkloot
As we all know, people in the rest of the Netherlands are also stupid and complete bastards, so your conclusion does not follow.
(Yes, even in Amsterdam. Especially in Amsterdam :P )
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I don't know what you're farking about, since Amsterdam Leeft didn't get any votes at all... 
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March 10, 2002, 16:23
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#39
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Settler
Local Time: 22:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
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Posts: 19
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Zopper,
Fortuyn didn't run in Amsterdam, did he. So keep your insults to your self until after the may 15 elections.
About Fortuyn: he's appealling to the feelings of dissatisfaction among a lot of people. His position now is easy. He's new and all he does is point towards the current failures of todays politcians and say that he will do it better. A lot of nouveau riche business man jump on his bandwagon, because they want things done (and think that are enough foreigners already).
When he will be elected the problems will start, because he and his friends don't have the solutions either. After four years of failed policy, people will go back to their old parties, or lose interest in politics all together.
__________________
Well, lets just imagine my question is not hypothetical then...
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My God, I'm thirty, I need a drink - english textbook spelling error
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March 10, 2002, 16:55
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#40
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Chieftain
Local Time: 21:30
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Wait. Because he's against Islamic immigrants, he's a fascist?
He has a valid point. They will throw their votes to the right, if they follow Americna voting trends of Muslims. Most of them vote Republican.
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March 10, 2002, 17:04
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#41
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Settler
Local Time: 23:30
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Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Faeelin
Wait. Because he's against Islamic immigrants, he's a fascist?
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Islamic immigrants?
Jesus
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March 10, 2002, 17:06
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#42
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Drekkus
Zopper,
Fortuyn didn't run in Amsterdam, did he. So keep your insults to your self until after the may 15 elections.
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March 10, 2002, 17:09
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#43
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Settler
Local Time: 23:30
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On the matter of immigrants and european right wing anti-immigrant movements growing..
isn't it true that 40% of the populatio of major dutch cities are immigrants?
also in Greece at least 1 million (in a population of just 11 million) are immigrants too (many illegal).
Now I have no sympathy for right wing but something must be done in order to curtail their strengthening.
A coherent immigration policy is the best way to deal with them.
Yes to humane conditions for immigrants, full respect of their rights but no to an anarchistic massive inflaw of immigrants (as is happening in Greece right now).
I wouldn't demonize extreme right wingers just think of ways to keep them down 
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March 10, 2002, 17:24
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#44
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Settler
Local Time: 23:30
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and about tha bold gay guy... he looks more pissed of because islam doesn't accept gays than anything else (like anyone would care what he thinks).
Also about Vlaams Blok, it's not just about immigrants, it's also about the strengthening of flemish nationalism... Isn't in their agenda to split Belgium in two? (Wallonia, Flanders)...
Aren't they particularly strong in Antwerp? And still their ratings have fallen down in comparison with the previous election IIRC?
Verhofstand (sp?) has tried to play it down... The same in Austria with Haider, it was in a specific canton he got his strength from...
In any case action must be taken so we don't have the racial fights that they have in Britain...
When unemployment is so high where are the youngsters going to turn but to those extreme right wing parties...
No mercy to them but also a coherent employement and immigration policy - you can't have a country with 10% and more unemployement and a pararel massive inflow of immigrants... that's a sure recipy for disaster...
And by the looks of it the creation of such a party in Greece is a matter of time too  Worst, racism and xenophobia have to a large extend been incorporated as small fractions to the two major parties themselves...
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March 10, 2002, 17:29
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#45
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Deity
Local Time: 17:30
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Watching people from Rotterdam insult people from Amsterdam and vice-versa is a real hoot. Almost... cute... 
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March 10, 2002, 17:49
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#46
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Saint Marcus
CDA is inderdaad klote, maar er zijn weinig andere oplossingen. VVD+CDA+D66 is niet genoeg. Ook VVD+CDA+LN is niet genoeg. VVD+CDA+Fortuyn waarschijnlijk net, maar is wel een heel krappe meerderheid. Paars III heeft waarschijnlijk ook te weinig zetels. Alleen PvdA+CDA+D66 of PvdA+CDA+GL blijft over. Behalve als je een monstercoalitie wilt van PvdA+CDA+VVD, maar das al helemaal niets. En een 4 partijen coalitie is ook niet echt handig.
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Stem allemaal op mijn partij, de Nederlandse Kannibalenpartij: Eetbaar Nederland! 
We eten de oppositie gewoon op 
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March 10, 2002, 18:00
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#47
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Emperor
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Pim Fortuyn is no fascist nor is he a racist. He is mainly against the new "wave" of immigrants because he feels Holland is full and because it is a fact that most crime comes from immigrants. He doesn't want the immigrant guest workers out we dragged in ourselves in the past decades. In fact, in Rotterdam a lot of the people from Surinam voted for him. He's luckily only a moderate right-winger and has pointed out several times that he wants nothing to do with Filip Dewinter (Vlaams Blok).
That doesn't mean that I agree with what he says though. And he has a big mouth but hasn't given any solutions yet. I'm just hoping he has awoken the other politicians a bit.
And Assur, you're an ass. A while ago in "Man bijt hond" there was a nice report about the immigrants in Antwerp. Several people on the streets were asked to guess how many immigrants there really were. Most answers were ridiculously high, from 10% to 50% or so, while in reality the figures are more like 5-10%.
Vlaams Blok tries to appeal to the masses by claiming to solve all the problems by kicking out all immigrants, keeping others from entering, giving preference to "natives" etc.
This simply won't solve any problems, because these plans are generally only dealing with the symptoms. You have to accept we live in a multi-cultural society these days, and the keyword is integration. And that doesn't mean forcing immigrants right into society, forcing them to learn the language, adapt to the new culture etc. and it doesn't mean ignore immigrants either. The former is what right-wing parties advocate and the latter is what's been done for a long time now. Immigrants should be extensively helped and guided. Children should be taught in their native language while getting additional Dutch lessons and gradually phase into getting lessons in Dutch.
I think the multi-cultural society is really only a good thing. The only problem is that it mainly gets negative attention because of crime. And that's our fault, not theirs, because we pushed the immigrant workers in the deep when we first got them here. And now we have to take it like a man and deal with the consequences, not take the easy way out and blame it all on them.
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March 10, 2002, 18:13
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#48
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King
Local Time: 22:30
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 Noo VLD=> it's a blue rabit
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Also about Vlaams Blok, it's not just about immigrants, it's also about the strengthening of flemish nationalism... Isn't in their agenda to split Belgium in two? (Wallonia, Flanders)...
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 It rather looks like they would want a Dictatorship of somekind outlawing everything they aren't.(their program isn't pretty(although it looks that way on first sight)
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Aren't they particularly strong in Antwerp? And still their ratings have fallen down in comparison with the previous election IIRC?
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Yep,don't think their ratings have fallen though(rather a status quo),really not good.
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In any case action must be taken so we don't have the racial fights that they have in Britain...
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don't think that will happen so fast,VB is around for some years now and except beeing totaly rediculous...
Shade
__________________
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"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site: home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
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March 10, 2002, 19:17
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#49
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DanS
Watching people from Rotterdam insult people from Amsterdam and vice-versa is a real hoot. Almost... cute...
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Kinda like New Yorkers and Los Angelenos.
Of course, L.A. didn't elect a fascist.
__________________
With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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March 10, 2002, 19:28
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#50
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King
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Of course, L.A. didn't elect a fascist.
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well, half the country voted for Bush in 2000. That's fascist enough.
__________________
Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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March 10, 2002, 20:59
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#51
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Emperor
Local Time: 16:30
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Posts: 4,213
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Quote:
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Originally posted by paiktis22
don't interfere with my trolling of Shi dammit
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Apparently paitkis needs to learn difference between "trolling" and "badly losing yet another argument". Trolling is when I drive you insane by defending the gallant actions of the human rights respecting Republic of Turkey against the evil Greeks. Badly losing arguments is what you do.
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"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
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March 10, 2002, 21:49
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#52
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Saint Marcus
well, half the country voted for Bush in 2000. That's fascist enough.
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Don't recall Bush sitting down explaining why Islam is bad.
__________________
With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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March 10, 2002, 23:17
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#53
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King
Local Time: 21:30
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Posts: 2,277
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I recall him saying that books were "great" because they had such "great pictures".
__________________
A witty quote proves nothing. - Voltaire
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March 10, 2002, 23:24
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#54
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OTF Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Faboba
I recall him saying that books were "great" because they had such "great pictures".
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that makes him stupid
not fascist
Jon Miller
__________________
Jon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
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March 10, 2002, 23:29
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#55
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King
Local Time: 17:30
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Posts: 2,744
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Faboba
I recall him saying that books were "great" because they had such "great pictures".
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What if they were comic books?
__________________
With such viral bias, you're opinion is thus rendered useless. -Shrapnel12, on my "bias" against the SS.
And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worth while, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: "I served in the United States Navy!"
"Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I ****ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective." --Barack Obama
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March 10, 2002, 23:59
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#56
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Emperor
Local Time: 17:30
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Posts: 3,197
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Isn't the Netherlands one of the European countries whose native population is actually in decline?
Let me get this straight: in the nation which legalized marijuana, the young, who presumably consume most of this legal marijuana, favor this racist politician? Now there's an arguement against legalization of dope.
__________________
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
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March 11, 2002, 00:06
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#57
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Settler
Local Time: 23:30
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Apparently paitkis needs to learn difference between "trolling" and "badly losing yet another argument". Trolling is when I drive you insane by defending the gallant actions of the human rights respecting Republic of Turkey against the evil Greeks. Badly losing arguments is what you do.
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AHAHAHA! You only tried it to do it once, you crushed and burned before my air superiority and then you never tried it again After that I have made a mission of trolling you in order to make you fight back and restore some kind of self confidence in you again
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March 11, 2002, 00:09
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#58
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King
Local Time: 21:30
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jon Miller
that makes him stupid
not fascist
Jon Miller
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My point. Well made. The mans not fascist if doesn't even know what the word means, right?
Lonestar - No this was for a literacy campaign. I think it might have been 'Neat' rather than great. There was a list of good bush quotes in the herald after the pretzel incident. That one was my favourite.
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A witty quote proves nothing. - Voltaire
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March 11, 2002, 00:10
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#59
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King
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Pfff. When you're high your interest in politics extends so far as to find out what everyone you're talking to's political philosophy is and then tell them how great it is.
Fascism's like the opposite of being stoned...
__________________
A witty quote proves nothing. - Voltaire
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March 11, 2002, 00:10
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#60
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Settler
Local Time: 23:30
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A person can very well be a fascist without knowing what it means. Knowledge of the definition is not a prerequisitive
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