Newbie question: capitals

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Hi again, and thanks again to everyone who responded to my question about AI subversion. Here's another thing I've been wondering about: why are capitals important, in game terms? The manual says they are, and I've tailored my own conquest strategies to sacking capitals as early as possible, but I'm not sure what effect losing the capital has on a civilization. In theory, it should increase corruption, but most of the time the AI civ I attack is fundamentalist of communist, so they don't have a corruption problem. I suppose it makes bribing a city to revolt easier (since proximity to the capital is an issue), but does it do anything else? And a related question: once a capital is sacked, does the empire lose its capital forver, or can it just build a palace in a remaining city? TIA.

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But there must be a war! I've paid a month's rent on the battlefield!
-- Rufus T. Firefly

[finbar]

They (and you) can build another capital if the funds are available to build another Palace. Oh, and if they (and you've) researched Masonry, of course.

Ever lost your capital early in a game? Prior to researching Masonry? Try it. It's a major pain in the arse.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited September 29, 2000).]

[CornMaster]

Capitals are important because without them there IS and increase of corruption, decrease of production and money. The AI will usually concentrate it's attacks there so you could alieavate a little pressure from one of your fronts.
Also if the AI is powerful enough you may be able to get it to have a civil war and split them up. If the AI has launched a spaceship, and it hasn't reached it's destination, you can take the capital and the ship will be recalled. You could also gain some valuable trade roots too.
And yes they can rebuild the palace and make a new capital.

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"I'm too out of shape for a long fight so I'll have to kill you fast"
Administrator of the CornEmpire Forum
My Civ 2 Scenario Page.

[Empress]

Put it this way, you lose your capital, you might as well be prepared to lose the game... against a human player at least.

[Gatekeeper]

RTF, et al.:

Ah, yes. I love the screams of AI agony when you sack its capital. If it's the last city, the scream quickly turns into a deathly wail that fades away into subservient oblivion. If it's a large empire, the screams turn into animalistic snarls as the peoples (conquered and not) composing said empire go at each others' throats and split into multiple nations (where, sometimes, the conquered become the rulers again).

The most pleasurable one of all is when the AI recalls its starship after a capital has fallen. What's most annoying is when the little bastards escape your ravaging armies and move the capital.

CYBERAmazon

[Bohlen]

Man, I love taking out an AI capital, especially when it is the first city you take in war. I can't help but let out an evil laugh when I take London or Moscow, or any other capital for that matter. Of course, finally capturing a capital after a long drawn out war is pretty satisfying too. Once that capital falls, the AI falls apart.

If you have easy access to a capital early in the game, keep that access open for later when your tech increases to the point where you can make a quick and deadly strike.

[johnmcd]

I was always under the impression that at Deity the AI just created a new palace instantly so the spaceship could carry on. Am I wrong? Why has this never had any effect for me?

[RedGreen]

I thought whenever you capture a capital, that civ's spaceship is recalled;however, I had this experience in a game at the King level-large world: I had eliminated all but one civ (Indian-purple) by the 1930's when the purp's launched a shaby spaceship (one module). I was not worried because I had an invasion force ready pounce on their capital. I waited until three turns before their ship was scheduled to land. I captured the purp's capital 4 times before exhausting my invasion force...each time they moved their capital, their spaceship was still flying on schedule!!! I was shocked when they landed their stinkin' spaceship ahead of my super 4-module spaceship. So, WHASSUP with that?!!! Is this a defect in the game or is there some way of knowing when a spaceship will not be recalled? Also, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen the AI build a spaceship with more than one module. I'm a newbie and I'm perplexed!

[Paul]

If you have more than 1000 gold you can buy a new palace and thus relocate your capital. Just try it: make sure you have 1000 gold and let an AI civ take your capital (actually, you need more because the AI will take some gold when it captures your capital). You will be offered to relocate your capital to another city. The AI can do the same thing. So just keep taking their capitals until they run out of gold.

[FreeChina]

Or when they run out of cities, whichever comes first. Usually any civ that moves their capital after more than three hard-captured cities gets complete takeover because they asked for it. Each one usually gets progressively easier to take though, after the second. The second is often the hardest because capitals, if never moved, are rarely in the most ideal of locations, while the next ring of cities are.

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*I've got no problem with dictatorship, as long as I'm on the dictating end.
**No woman is fit to rule a nation, neither is any man. So deal with it and shut up.
***All governments suck. Some suck more, some suck less, but they all suck.

[Mark von Wagner]

If a civilization looses its capitol, it becomes much cheaper to bribe that civilization's units and cities.

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 09-29-2000 05:02 AM "The manual says"

Do you mean to say you're reading the manual?!

NEVER READ MANUALS!

Come and read the Apolyton hint, tips and strategy forums!

[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by Dr_Strangelove on 10-05-2000 08:49 AM Do you mean to say you're reading the manual?! NEVER READ MANUALS! Come and read the Apolyton hint, tips and strategy forums!

Hey! the manual can be interesting reading - I finally read it recently after playing the game for 4 years And I actually learned a couple things - mainly little things that had never come up in a game for me before (like multiple viewso on the main map) or never noticed before (like the beaker(research) and sun (pollution) icons on the status window (with the population, gold, tax rate, active units etc).

As for Apolyton hints and tips, i find many of them rather funny, and occasionally useful. I was quite honestly very surprised at how many people swore by fundamentalism as the only government to be in as well as the lack of supporters for Democracy (my hands down first choice)

Of course I have to agree with the strategy forum sentiments - even the best players can claim to have learned something from it

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Sleep is a luxury and I don't have Shakespeare's Theatre in my back yard.

[Scouse Gits]

quote: Originally posted by Dr_Strangelove on 10-05-2000 08:49 AM Do you mean to say you're reading the manual?! NEVER READ MANUALS! Come and read the Apolyton hint, tips and strategy forums!

You must realise that days of experimentation can save whole minutes of reading the manual!


edit: to fix the dead smiley
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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited October 05, 2000).]

[N35t0r]

quote: Originally posted by SCG on 10-05-2000 09:24 AM Hey! the manual can be interesting reading

YES!

Very good fiction!

I've never read the CIV 2 manual, though.

[Barington]

[I was quite honestly very surprised at how many people swore by fundamentalism as the only government to be in as well as the lack of supporters for Democracy (my hands down first choice)

I am totally with you there. Balancing happiness and keeping your senate happy etc seems to me much more interesting than winning under fundy or communism. I only ever go monarchy/democracy.

[johnmcd]

I only go Democracy, Republic or Monarchy (I only Republic cause I hate the monarchy). I think it is more interesting. I also try not to use martial law when possible. Is this taking my liberal politics too far?

First thing I do with any new game is read the manual, they are often the best bits. That said I spent a day at work recently writing a mini manual for a colleauge I'd persuaded to give the game a go. I thought givining him the whole thing would put him off. Does anyone know if there are any other Civ II mini manuals out there?
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited October 06, 2000).]

[Emperor10]

Funny you should mention that, I've always thought "Democracy"(Democrat?) in Civ 2 is like having a liberal government, while "Republic"(Republican?) is like having a conservative government. In Democracy you get to tax the people 100%, your citizens are always on the verge of rioting, and that pathetic peace-loving Senate is always throwing a wrench in your conquest plans. On the plus side, with all that ivory tower intellectualism, your science levels flourish. In a Republic the maximum tax rate is 80%, so at least they get some of thier money back, the Senate is far more supportive of the military, and the citizens are less fickle in trying to collaspe the government. Of course in exchange for this relative stability, you don't get many of the bonuses associated with Democracy.

[Didymus]

quote: Originally posted by Emperor10 on 10-10-2000 09:45 PM In a Republic the maximum tax rate is 80%, so at least they get some of their money back, the Senate is far more supportive of the military, and the citizens are less fickle in trying to collapse the government. Of course in exchange for this relative stability, you don't get many of the bonuses associated with Democracy.

Well, you get the money bonus. What else matters?
"Gimme money, that's what I want, yeah ..."

Actually, I learned the (very) hard way that the other benefits matter, having lost two cities to a fundy gov't during the space race. PITA!

And, finbar, I have lost my capital prior to masonry. Oh Lord, that sucked . I don't recall details, but I'm confident I gave that game up.