Getting the most out of your Elites - Page 3

Bluefrog · November 27, 2002, 16:29

Here I am, playing Germany, and destroying the traitorous Zulus. My elite warrior performed so wonderfully as to generate a Great Leader! Turns out, the soldier earned his name, Kaiser Wilhelm. At any rate, upon my discovery of iron, I upgraded the Kaiser to a swordsman. He kept his name, but no longer did he have the asterisk.

Can he now produce another leader? I haven't had success, but the probability of generating a GL is relatively small. Does the game check to see if an asterisk is denoted before checking for leader generation? If it does, then ALWAYS upgrade your leader-generator.

Just a thought.

dac · November 27, 2002, 16:39

You are correct, once you upgrade a unit with an asterisk, it loses the asterisk and can now generate a new leader, like any other unit, although it'll have to be promoted to Elite again.

vmxa1 · November 27, 2002, 18:27

That is correct and I have done that many times with horsemen/kinghts, tank/MA, Inf/MI (much less common). I keep track withe the naming, Tanknn_MA55. It got the name tanknn (nn was the number of leader it was at that time, when it became and MA and got a leader it becomes Tanknn_MAnn.

ducki · November 27, 2002, 18:31

Disclaimer - Most of you know what little experience I have with leaders, so...

I think the Upgrade or Not choice is dependent on how long until you _can_ upgrade and whether you build an Army or not.

I have a 3 Samurai Army right now, made up of my Elite* Sams, but only because it was too far away for an upgrade potential.

Plus, it's nice to have 5hp guys to add to your Army, especially ones with 2 move and 4 defense.

Theseus · November 27, 2002, 19:12

Great example, ducki.

Sams are interesting, in that they are one of the only units that upgrade to a weaker defense.

Mixed forces of Sams and Cavs, as well as mixed-unit Armies

, are awesome!!

The speed at which I upgrade elites is typically dependent on the increase in overall strength.

vmxa1 · November 28, 2002, 02:44

Ducki, I think is ineresting, but what does it have to do with upgrades? You can not upgrade units in an Army so they are not even considered.
It is true and I mentioned one case where you do not always upgrade immediately.

ducki · November 28, 2002, 03:16

It's just a decision not to upgrade. The flipside of upgrades.

Say you are only a few turns into Chivalry and get an Leadered Knight or two. If you have an Army waiting for a unit or two, it's a loooong way to Mil.Trad.

Personally, I'd drop the knight in the army if I need a nutcracker.

I just mentioned it because it's another way to get a lot out of an Elite and sometimes, not upgrading is as important a decision as upgrading. Not often, but there are those few special cases, usually dependent on Civ.

Tattila the Hun · November 28, 2002, 07:54

Do elites in army create GL's?

One use for GL, if wishing to get more of them soon, is to make an army, not put any units in it, and later disband it to build, say courthouse or whatever in distant border city. You get 100 shields from it, as I recall.

Theseus · November 28, 2002, 11:57

Heathen!

vmxa1 · November 28, 2002, 15:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Do elites in army create GL's?

No.

DaveMcW · November 28, 2002, 18:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
One use for GL, if wishing to get more of them soon, is to make an army, not put any units in it, and later disband it to build, say courthouse or whatever in distant border city. You get 100 shields from it, as I recall.

Only problem is the rules call for a "victorious army" to build the Heroic Epic. So you need to load a unit or two, and the army needs to be strong enough to have close to 100% chance of winning a battle.

ducki · November 28, 2002, 23:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
One use for GL, if wishing to get more of them soon, is to make an army, not put any units in it, and later disband it to build, say courthouse or whatever in distant border city. You get 100 shields from it, as I recall.

I'm not sure I see the logic in this one, Tattila...
...if you need to rush a building, it seems easier to just rush the building.

I'm sure I've missed something, I just don't know what.

Tattila the Hun · November 29, 2002, 02:46

Well, if you just don't need the leader right away (no wonders to build, the biggest improvement you can build is the library...), and are hoping, praying and expecting another leader(s) to emerge from near future elite battles, which would be impossible if you allready had a leader (are they limited to one in ptw also?) Either make it an army, input the horseman or what have you, and get the Heroic Epic and academy, and if not in war, just let it be there, just in case, or later disband it in a city desperately needing a cathedral or something. Convential means of rushing might not allways be available, be it lack of money, population or anarchy.
Naturally, if you still have the army of horsies in industrial times, unupgradeable, useless, then send it to HongKong, dispand it to get the police station, and use the saved money to buy candy for your people.

Naturally, usually there is a wonder to be built, or in the near horizon, so this doesn't apply very often...

vmxa1 · November 29, 2002, 15:53

Ducki, the value of the leader being used for an army is it can be disband to build something at any time, the army does not have to be stocked until it suits your needs and you can theorectically get another leader now. This is not wise if you have a wonder to build soon or are not going to be at war and hence no new leaders. The question becomes one of timing. Too many factors to discuss and the game will dictate my choice.

ducki · November 29, 2002, 15:55

Ahh, I get it!
Thanks Tattila.

I've actually been in a couple of situations where I was between wonders and didn't really want to make an Army.

Interesting, though I might be more inclined to hang onto the leader if a wonder tech was close, since you can't trust the RNG completely.

Good idea, though.

Edit: Haha, crosspost. Thanks also to you, vmxa1!

MysteryMan · August 15, 2003, 13:04

I have recently been playing as a warmongering evil SOB (see also: the Dark Lord style) and this has (obviously) put me in MUCH combat. Recently, I have noticed that if I have, say, two stacks of, say, archers, with one stack containing 3 elite 3 veteran and the other stack containing all veteren, and with the elite stack on a mountain and the veterans on plains, the AI attacks the Elite stack EVERY TIME. Not only that, they win FAR MORE than they lose that way (attacking with regular archers, I think that the odds work out to being just slightly in my favour there). Here's the math (I might have some math from previous versions of civ mixed up here, if someone could correct me then I would be much obliged)...
Regular AI dude (3 hp), 2/1
My Elite Dude, (5hp)2/1, Mountains (+3/*3???), defender bonus (+10/20%??), fortified (*2). Seems any way you crunch these numbers, you end up with my guy winning hands down most of the time.
Not the way it works though (in my recent experience). I have always played the 'good guy' builder type civ, and have only recently realized the joys of the dark side...

My answer: ALWAYS have a good defensive unit (at VETERAN so it's expendable and will fight first) in the same stack as your precious elites.
Anyways, that's just my $0.02. Don't spend it all in one place.

Arrian · August 15, 2003, 13:42

I always bring a vet spearman or two along with my major attack stacks. Those guys eat up the counterattacks (and often win, since the AI uses regulars most of the time), leaving my attack troops unmolested until they get around to doing what they do best. Attacking.

-Arrian

vmxa1 · August 15, 2003, 17:02

The elites will defend first, if all else is equal as they will be the best defender. The attacker does not get to choose to attack your elite. If you had a better defensive unit in the stack it would defend first.

fanes7 · August 22, 2003, 07:32

I like to see the game picture, could you paste some on site? Sorry I couldn't read too many english.