A Blast from the Past...

yin26 · January 16, 2001, 09:08

quote:

THE LIST
(May 17, 1999) The CivIII suggestions have started to fall like rain with Yin26, along with Pythagoras, JT and Jeje2 gathering a list of suggestions to produce. The list will be sent to Firaxis, a company which has proven it is always open to ideas from fans. More people are needed to make this project a success, so if you can and want to help out in the creation of the list or simply give your CivIII ideas, we'd love to hear from you! Just head over to our CivIII forum and let your wishes be known!

I was searching for some obscure thing and came across this old news item at Apolyton. LOOK AT THE DATE! Man, nearly two years already...I wonder if Pythagoras, JT and Jeje are up for the patch lists?

Koyaanisqatsi · January 16, 2001, 09:13

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 01-16-2001 08:08 AMMan, nearly two years already...

Wow...that's just...disturbing.

Congratulations, you managed to make a 21 year old feel elderly...

yin26 · January 16, 2001, 09:30

Bell, you were 19 back then!? Ah, just a teenager...but posted like an elder statesman.

Jeje2 · January 16, 2001, 10:06

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 01-16-2001 08:08 AM
I was searching for some obscure thing and came across this old news item at Apolyton. LOOK AT THE DATE! Man, nearly two years already...I wonder if Pythagoras, JT and Jeje are up for the patch lists?

Wow!

Yin26:
1. Patchlist: sure, when do you want it?

2. I'll promice to jump ship again when the going get's too rough

Aredhran · January 16, 2001, 11:32

And all this started with just a short post from one of the Firaxis guys, back on the alpha.owo forums, requesting our input

Congratulations and thanks are in order for you guys I believe.

Aredhran

Koyaanisqatsi · January 16, 2001, 11:35

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 01-16-2001 08:30 AM
Bell, you were 19 back then!? Ah, just a teenager...but posted like an elder statesman.

Aw, shucks...

Yep, I was 19 in May99...but in the immortal words of Mork, I'm not as old as I used to be.

Apparently I'm pretty consistant, though. After I saw the list was going to be two years old soon, I looked through a bunch of the old posts...I wrote this all the way back on May 25 1999:

quote:

I think the thing to remember is that this is a game, not a simulation. Taking control of critical game functions (including city infrastructure) out of the player's hands may be realistic, but in my opinion it doesn't make for a very good game.

Wisdom, like wine, is better with age...

And can we wait for the game itself before we do a patch list? Pretty please!?!

Ralf · January 16, 2001, 14:38

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 01-16-2001 08:08 AM
LOOK AT THE DATE! Man, nearly two years already...

If the Dinosaur-game hadnt come in between, and the Big_huge_games defect hadnt taken place, the Civ-3 game would probably already have been released, or at least release-ready, by now.

On the other hand:

If the Civ-3 game had been released at the same time as CTP-2, they wouldnt been able to learn from CTP-2 mistakes and, by all means, some few good tweaks.

I realize im trying to make a virtue of necessity here, but i think it is really valuable for Firaxis to see how some Civ-game ideas looks like "in the flesh", so to speak - while they still have time to draw conclusions, and - if necessary - make some changes to their own project.
In the EC3-list, the idea of "expanding city-areas" for example, got rather high ratings. For a short while, I also was hooked on the idea too. Looking at the finished Activision product however, i think it safe to say that the whole "expanding city-area" concept should really be left behind.

The good things? Well, I like the idea of an empire-manager and a empire unit-manager. I just dont like to have it all fractionized into multiple manager-screens, and the fractionized even further into multiple tabs, ala CTP-2.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited January 16, 2001).]

DarkCloud · January 16, 2001, 21:16

Perhaps I could help in patching up the list... I already have Tribes 0.1 and Cities 0.1 as well as other compilations such as "Election to the UN" etc.

Jeje2 · January 17, 2001, 03:12

Yin: Finally I found it. Your official call by BR for CivIII.

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Reynolds FIRAXIS on 05-16-1999 10:10 PM
I know from experience that the best way to receive suggestion lists is to get one big huge long one every now and then--small piecemeal ones are a lot easier to lose, which is unfortunate because they often have great ideas.

One thing to consider, as you guys discuss Civ3 suggestions in the coming months, is to appoint a volunteer or two to collect the good suggestions into a list--Yin? Where are you Yin?

In the years following Civ1, some guys on the Internet put together a "Civ2 suggestions FAQ" which proved immeasurably helpful in our development of that game.

If you send me a big "core dump" from time to time at breynolds@firaxis.com you can rest assured it will be printed out and sitting on my desk while I'm designing and coding!

BR

Now this post should be on the apolyton Civ3 site IMHO.

yin26 · January 17, 2001, 04:02

Wow, things seemed so happy and innocent back then. Little did we know Brian would be leaving soon.

My reply was pretty funny (like some Junior Cub Scout):

quote:

Brian,
It shall be done!

In case some of you have no idea what Brian is talking about, I helped compile a suggestion list for SMAC's upcoming patch. Let me just say, the brilliant ideas and bugs collected obviously did not come from me (though I tried to sneak a few in!). I just did the grunt work.

I'd like to collect all your ideas and, as Brian says, put them in something like a prioritized list that can be sent every month or so.

The advantage of this format, obviously, is we don't flood Brian's e-mail with repeat suggestions, and we can help sift out what is really important to us and put it in one convenient place for the Firaxis team.

O.K.--Let's get the ideas rolling!

Literally, hundreds of hours later, Lists 1 and 2 were completed. However, looking back, only now did I read Brian's post carefully. Note that he said collect the "good" suggestions! LOL Well, a few hundred pages might have been dropped had we approached the project that way!

Actually, we did manage to try to debate things before simply adding them, but mainly we ended up giving them just about every idea we could think of. Poor Firaxis.

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited January 17, 2001).]

Jeje2 · January 17, 2001, 06:08

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 01-17-2001 03:02 AM
Note that he said collect the "good" suggestions! LOL Well, a few hundred pages might have been dropped had we approached the project that way!

Nope, you missed the important thing. If you read carefully you'll find that Brian said:

quote:

If you send me a big "core dump"...

Notice the big part. Well I think 500+ pages is big enough

Can be even more than he was ever hoping for.
(But thats another story)

DarkCloud · January 17, 2001, 23:25

Well Yin, am I allowed to help?

yin26 · January 18, 2001, 00:28

DarkCloud,

Sorry, I didn't see your post. I would be VERY pleased to get your help. As always, I believe that the more people involved in providing/gathering feedback and producing a coherent result...the better. I'll be looking for you.

Theben · January 18, 2001, 03:20

And if you need someone to put it all together after EVERYONE bails out you know were to find me.

Well, ALMOST everyone.

yin26 · January 18, 2001, 04:26

Man, so true (though I understand).

EnochF · January 18, 2001, 15:25

I remember, back in May '99 I had a cushy Microsoft job with very little work involved, so I did little but work on The List all day (and do a little bit of testing on that new optical mouse that you may have seen).

I've got a somewhat less cushy job now, so I can still offer up suggestions, but I probably won't have the time to compile them into a list... er, except maybe on a three-day weekend. And since I've rediscovered Civ II this month, I've got a renewed interest in Civ III. I want Civ III to be the kind of game that I can still get interested in eight years later. Y'know, when I've got my super voice-controlled Pentium X with a personal AI assistant tailored to my personality.

DarkCloud · January 18, 2001, 21:48

So what am I assigned to do?

DarkCloud · January 18, 2001, 21:49

Thanks!

yin26 · January 19, 2001, 21:48

DarkCloud,

Generally what happens is this:

If Firaxis asks us for any feedback before the release of the game, we might try to organize it. But that phase of things is pretty much over except for things like what Dan posted, which doesn't need organizing.
The real work begins once the game is released and we find bugs/annoyances. At that point, we will need to prioritize "our" wishes for Jeff Morris to allocate his time accordingly. I'll be needing lots of help then, but that's still several months away. But don't forget.