Really. Honestly. Deep, deep down

notyoueither · March 14, 2002, 04:43

How many times has the game beat you like a rented mule?

You know, you're about to complete that GreatLibrary and things are going really swell. Then that wall of Immortals shows up on the border (or Jags, or Legions, or MWs, etc.). Or... supply your own horror story...

Mine? Well... Hmmm. It's too embarassing to say... OK, OK... I'm Roman, see. And this Ghandi guy lays a whooping on me like I'll never want to live through again. No, no... that never happened.

OK. The map. I've been betrayed by geography and politics more than once. Last time I was between the English and Americans. Only I was too far away from either for a good, effective Ancient war. They were the only ones I bordered. I eventually went to war with the Americans because I needed more room and they were sitting in *my* room. The Japanese and the Zulus go to war with me, but they are way too far away to effect me, so it's after Abe I go. I didn't have an overly large army. Just big enough for the tasks at hand. The war is going well. Several American cities fall before the might of Rome. Then BANG. A wall of Zulu Cavalry and Knights come pouring through the American frontier right into my lap.

Lesson: never, ever ignore any AI civ at war with you. Always enlist allies against any AI civ that declares war on you. It is relatively cheap. Much cheaper than the loss of an Empire.

Salve

Aeson · March 14, 2002, 05:22

When I first installed Civ3, I played a quick Chieftain game. Had my own Continent after a short early war, and just built up to a Spaceship Victory. Figured Civ3 was just like all the other Civ games and so jumped to Deity. My first 2 games on Deity I gave up in frustration. Looking back I probably could have won them both if I had played through to the end (and had any idea what I was doing). I didn't realize that it was normal to fall far behind the AI early on the higher difficulties.

The first game I was the Persians, I build a lot of Immortals and chased the Aztecs all around a Large Pangaea map. They kept building cities faster than I could take them, and all the other AI were even larger. Thought it was hopeless and quit. I found CivFanatics then and read about the "Pope" strategy, figured I'd give it a try. The second game I was the Greeks, again in a Deity, Large Pangaea game. I had a lot of room to expand. Built up to the corruption limit and was about half the size of any of the AI, far behind in tech. I just quit, thinking that the game was out of reach. My next game was when I figured out what the little icon in the city window, next to the current build was. Pop-rushing made everything so much easier.

The only other time I've lost was a Deity game I played as the French. Started close to the Germans and for some reason they decided to attack about 15 turns into the game. They had a few Archers, Spearmen and a stack of Warriors. I had a Warrior. Game over.

notyoueither · March 14, 2002, 05:39

Aeson. You lost? There is hope for everyone, or maybe the opposite...

Really? Never given up on a desert start when you were surrounded quickly by the Aztechs? Jungle start with the Persians just over that row of hills?

I have found that the strategy inflicted on me by the map has sometimes overcome my willingness or ability to see the situation through.

Imagine a room full of Englishmen... We'd have been a real power if it weren't far that cursed channel!!!

Salve

Tingkai · March 14, 2002, 06:04

A couple of times. I only play on the Regeant level.

Aeson · March 14, 2002, 07:09

Quote:

Really? Never given up on a desert start when you were surrounded quickly by the Aztechs? Jungle start with the Persians just over that row of hills?

I do Ctrl-Shift-Q if the start doesn't look like what I want to play that game. Sometimes I want a challenge, and try and get a difficult starting point. Other times I want to test a specific opening or strategy, coast, or rack up points for a CivFanatics HOF submission (my new obsession?). If it takes a few starts to find a game I'm in the mood for, so be it. Once I decide to play on the map is when I start counting.

There have been a few other losing games I played that I just don't consider losses. I played 3 OCC games on Deity/Tiny maps, trying for a Space Race Victory. Each time I couldn't get the required resources to actually build the ship components though. Ended up with 24 pages of logs just gone to waste.

An Emperor/Huge/Pangaea game I played to submit to CivFanatics HOF ended in a "loss". I gave away all my cities to the last remaining AI at 2048, disbanded my capitol and the resulting settler. Thought it would be funny to lose with my highest scoring game ever. :P

I know there are some starts I just couldn't win from. It's a rare occurance, but when a high difficulty AI decides to crush the human early on it's game over. Getting stuck on a very small jungle island would be close to impossible to come back from too. A single tile mountain island start would be funny!

Arrian · March 14, 2002, 10:55

First off, if restarting due to crappy start location counts as getting beaten like a rented mule, then I lose all the time. I have no patience for garbage starts. In fact, I'm really picky about my starts.

As for getting straight-up beaten... 5 sounds about right.

The worst: I'm Babylon. It's 3000bc. A lone German warrior sneak attacks Babylon, which is defended by a lone warrior of mine... and wins w/o hit point loss. Game Over.

I've also been crushed by an American horseman rush - and I was the Iroquois! Mounted Warriors are awesome units, but not on defense - they outnumbered me... oh, like 3 to 1 (I think the Great Wall triggered their golden age or something, because they showed up with an amazing number of horsemen).

Hence, my deep and abiding distrust of Abe and Bismarck (actually, hatred in the case of Bismarck).

I quit the first Monarch level game I tried (Egypt) due to frustration... and the MASSIVE stack of legions that had just crossed my border, shrugging aside my musketmen in a chokepoint fort I'd built like they weren't even there. I knew I was dead meat.

Let's see.... oh, I got beaten as Greece, but I forget who attacked me (for some reason I don't think it was Rome). My hoplites just got overwhelmed and I had no offensive troops yet.. they hit me real early.

The only game I've ever tried as Russia ended when Bismarck attacked me and took a city (the 3rd one I'd managed to build). I gave up on that one.

I'm sure there have been a couple more here or there... so call it 5-10.

-Arrian

DilithiumDad · March 14, 2002, 11:23

My "defeats" have been quits in the early ancient era --mostly desert or jungle starts with aggressive neighbors (especially Aztecs!).

Here's one that nearly made me quit. Some jag warriors are hanging around my territory, but I don't worry because every city is fortified with veteran and elite legions. I also have fortified legions posted on some mountains with road access. Montezuma stages a sneak attack. An elite jag warrior takes out a fortified veteran legion in Rome, taking only one damage. That's one attack versus 3.75 defense, so the attacker should win one in five --how do they win 4 out of 5?? Then I attack a veteran jag with a veteran legion. The jag is on a hill. That's 3 attack versus 1.5 defense. I lose, and the jag takes only one hit. I reloaded autosave from 3 turns previous and attack first. The two jags defeat my two legions (one was elite). What's with these AI "super-units"? In that game, I was continuously at war because all the AI declared war out the blue. (And this is only regent level, mind you!). Elite legions won 2 to 4 victories per turn. But it was 40 turns before I got my first great leader! Leader generation was one out of maybe 120, not one out of 16!

Harovan · March 14, 2002, 11:40

If every abandoned game would count as a loss, I would have 100 or so. And, like Arrian, I am a bit picky with my start position. If I see by 3000BC, that it's really crappy, I won't waste 50 hours or more on it, because for me the game has to be more fun than struggle. And I abandoned lots of games in the late industrial or modern era, where I was far far ahead and just quit due to the increasing tedium.

If count as a loss only games, where the AI beat me, it was 4.

1st: An OCC game as Babs on Regent, where I managed to survive 3 wars against the Germans, Persians and Greeks, got a lead, but the Persians sneak attacked and destroyed me in the industrial age.

2nd: A builder game as Germans on Monarch. I was attacked by the Chinese allied with the Indians (huh?!

) in the ancient age. I was all but strong, and hired the Persians to help me. Well, they quickly consumed the Chinese and Indians, and since I missed to build my own military meanwhile, they came with about 40 horsies and immortals and had me as dessert. After this, I begun really to hate Xerxes

.

3rd: Another builder game on Monarch. I don't remember details.

4th: A game as Egypts on Deity. Managed to get 5 good cities before I got hemmed in. I had horses, but no iron. I attacked a Greeks city with iron with my war chariots, took it and wanted to go forth. But the city was at a chokepoint, and behind was jungle. Chariots don't go in jungle, that was what I overlooked. I didn't have anything but chariots in the city, and the Greeks counterattacked with horsies and archers. I couldn't even strike back and lost a lot of chariots. I threw all units I had in that city. After this, the Babs stabbed me from behind and since I left my empire unprotected, I lost.

Unregistered · March 14, 2002, 13:26

Well, I haven't really played that many games all the way thru yet. Worst loss for me was the first game out of the box. Monarch, playing France, huge map w/ continents, 16 opponets. Hadn't even looked at the manual. Finished with seven cities. (Got hemmed in early & never was big enough - I thought anyway - to try to take on my neighbors) Lost when the Babs (?? I think it was them anyway) launched their starship. I had just completed my first fighters the turn before that... I think I ranked 14th. And 5 other civs had been eliminated. I don't know about the rented mule, but I was certainly beaten like a red-headed stepchild!

Anyway,

notyoueither · March 14, 2002, 14:59

OK. I agree. Abandoning bad start locations should not count as a loss. But, hoy! Is it ever satisfying to win after having started in suboptimal conditions.

Salve

notyoueither · March 15, 2002, 03:29

Oh come on! There have to be more than 25 players on the strategy forum.

Who has never lost one? Tell us how! korn? Did you set JW to 99 attack and 99 defence? Would you need to?

Who is playing Fish? This is the place to get some help.

OK. Another unfortunate experience. Seems this Roman guy found himself stuck between Germany, Japan and Egypt. He took a jungle/desert (yes, at the same time) start and tried to parlay it into something great. Too bad that he got jumped by all three (and India

on the same turn. That bold Roman had given it an honest shot at overcoming the odds. Unfortunately, Fortuna was looking the other way in that game. Was it me you ask? Why would you ask?

The lesson? Kill at least one close neibour early. That'll be one less civ to jump you later.

Salve

korn469 · March 15, 2002, 05:46

nye

actually i set the JW to 1000.1000.100, with blitz and all terrain as roads, for some reason i haven't lost one yet

but actually

a game or two ago on the blitz mod diety/raging (with harder diety) the Aztecs beat me down using only ancient era units, and they had forced me to cede them a city when i sued for peace, and we were both just hitting the middle ages, but where we were isolated on a contient by ourselves the rest of the world was in the industrial age, and right after the Aztecs had humiliated me, they made contact with the rest of the world and got a healthy tech lead...i quit in defeat because if they were overwhelming me with swordsmens, JWs, spearmen, and horsemen...i wouldn't even want to image what they would do with riflemen

Kuciwalker · March 16, 2002, 16:51

None. I always play monarch, tiny map, America. I use a builder peacenik strategy until I get nukes, then I build 30-40 of them and basically annhilate the rest of the world. Then I invade and raze their cities for workers to clean up the pollution.

Panzer · March 17, 2002, 12:51

Well, I'm very picky when it comes to startlocations, so I often restart my game. So far I've only played on Warlord (just playing casually, no fancy tricks like pop-rushing for me, so I never exceed the Ai by much). But anyway, I was playing just fine, minding my own business. I had occupied the entire southern half of my continent and made contact with every other civ. I shared my continent with Rome, China and Egypt, the rest was on the other continent (12 civs, normal map). I see a small group of Roman warriors cross the border. Next turn, Caesar declares war on me. I expelled the little invasion when suddenly dozens of veteran legions cross my border. I hadn't payed any attention to my military so I only had spearman (one/two per city) and the occasional archer. I was busy building my roads and had not yet completed a road to a source of Iron. I gave up on that game, I knew I was finished when 10 legions besieged my capital, defended by a lone spearman.

Cookie Monster · March 18, 2002, 09:25

I voted for the 5th choice down from the top of the poll.

I was playing on Regent level with 1.16f and was just starting to do better. At that point I was losing maybe 7 out of 10 games. Poor I know but better than when I first got the game.

Then came 1.17f. Now I'm back to the way it was when I first got the game. I play on easy level now, how sad is that? My problem is that right off the bat everyone hates me. They go to war over the stupidist things, like if I don't give them 20 gold. I know it's a small price to pay to avoid a war but I refuse to bow to the AI's demands on me. They usually make demands on me when my empire is 3 cities big and their's is 5+ cities big. One thing though I'm still enjoying the game, I need improvement, but I'm still enjoying the game.

notyoueither · March 18, 2002, 13:59

Yes, HD. Pride has it's price, especially when Monte comes calling.

I really like how he calls you *Weak One*. Hmmm memories like that really add to the enjoyment when we roast marsh mallows in the bon fire that was his capital.

Salve

Cookie Monster · March 18, 2002, 14:29

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Yes, HD. Pride has it's price, especially when Monte comes calling.

I really like how he calls you *Weak One*. Hmmm memories like that really add to the enjoyment when we roast marsh mallows in the bon fire that was his capital.

Salve

It's because of this that I don't feel sorry even when I "roast" an allys' capital!

Thrawn05 · March 19, 2002, 00:22

Bananas are good for you when your playing civ3 for 8 hours straight.

notyoueither · March 19, 2002, 00:25

Bananas are good for you under almost any circumstances.

Salve

bogatir · March 20, 2002, 19:29

The whoopin' that ticked me off the most was entirely my own fault. I was playing the Aztecs and had gotten into the Modern Age in pretty good shape. I was getting ready to start the 'spaceship' series of techs and building when I thought I'd try something different.

"How about a diplomatic victory this time?" I thought. Heck, everybody liked us. I hadn't had a war in 100 years. I try to keep a city building a palace around somewhere so I can quick-switch to a wonder as I research the techs -- so I figured I switch my 'palace' city over to build the UN instead of the Apollo Program.

A few turns later, the "vote for General Secretary" message shows up when I finish the UN, and, being a big dumb butt, I clicked "yes."

Firking Americans. Glorious Azteckia got two votes. The firking Americans got three. Crap. I've never tried for a diplomatic victory again. Crap.

Lesson: Build the UN, but never hold a vote. What a putz...

Thrawn05 · March 22, 2002, 22:54

Quote:

Originally posted by bogatir
Firking Americans. Glorious Azteckia got two votes. The firking Americans got three. Crap. I've never tried for a diplomatic victory again. Crap.

What you want to do, if right before you build it, or the turn before the vote, give all the other civs free cash, and I mean every civ and not just here is 100 free gold coins. I'm talking 1000s. If you can't do that, give them all free techs (two or three will do). Usualy if I can't win at space race and/or I'm in a middle of a war I can't win, the UN is my cheap way out.

Harovan · March 25, 2002, 09:42

A few days ago I played the shortest real game I ever had, not even 25 turns long. I was the Iroquois, founded Salamanca, built an extra scout and a regular warrior as first defender and was 2 turns apart from building my first settler, when a German elite archer came. Game over.

Aeson · March 25, 2002, 17:27

I once had the Aztec's attack me around turn 30. The Germans are the only ones who have ever hit me before that. They can really be mean sometimes. With the free units the AI gets on higher difficulties, it's game over.

civman2000 · March 27, 2002, 09:51

I'm godlike--I quit before I lose

Thrawn05 · March 27, 2002, 12:52

Quote:

Originally posted by civman2000
I'm godlike--I quit before I lose

Yes, considering you have the ability to destroy the world by pressing the ESC key a couple of times.

Kingof the Apes · March 27, 2002, 20:40

I was playing as the Americans. I was doing pretty well, most powerful on my continent, when after a war with egypt (late ancient age) greece, aztecs, iroqois, and egyptions started sending settler/spearmen (or hoplite) across my entire empire to get to a small jungle area on the coastline i had not bothered to settle. pretty soon, they all declared war on me because i asked them to leave. hoplites pilaging, swordsmen capturing and razing... they all went phsyco over a jungle space that could fit around two cities.

my large army of swordsmen and a few knights at this point were slaughtered. I had to give awaytechs, lots of money and one city so all but egypt declared peace. then greece broke the treaty, signed a MA with iroqois, and i quit.

Dapper Gent · March 27, 2002, 22:55

I'm not the greatest at Civ3, I'd have to put myself down in the plenty of losses category. My most miserable defeat came when I was playing as the chinese and got a start in a desert, went south and found a wide miserable expanse of jungle and the Japanese. I had a short war with them and wiped them out. I'm great! I was thinking. I found myself bordered on one side by the Indians and on the other by the Egytians. I thought I was so great I decided to attack the indians with my shiny new riders. By this stage I had been warring since the start of the game like a bloodthirsty maggot and so had pisspoor culture. The final straw came when the Indians beat me back then took about 4 cities with those dang war elephants and at around the same time on the other side two of my cities in quick succesion decided to walk like Egyptians. The really embarrasing thing about this was that they were both only about 3 squares away from my expressly Forbidden Palace. At this point the Egytians decided they liked the taste of China and wanted a bit more and piled over the border. I then quit like a good communist.

As bad as that may seem I was in an Internet Cafe last week playing CounterStrike (great bandwidth) when I heard a guy a couple of seats over shouting "Thats not fair!" continually and not ironically at his PC. I craned my neck a bit a saw he was playing Civ3. He was shouting... at an AI player... in public. Now that must have been one miserable defeat or else he was crazy like a loon.

Kingof the Apes · March 28, 2002, 01:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Dapper Gent
As bad as that may seem I was in an Internet Cafe last week playing CounterStrike (great bandwidth) when I heard a guy a couple of seats over shouting "Thats not fair!" continually and not ironically at his PC. I craned my neck a bit a saw he was playing Civ3. He was shouting... at an AI player... in public. Now that must have been one miserable defeat or else he was crazy like a loon.

I do that sometimes, I hate it when the AI gets lucky.

Giovanni August · March 30, 2002, 18:56

I lost a few times, because I don't like is that whole concept of "grab terrain as fast as you can" and I generally end up in the Ancient era with a small Empire and I am forced to declare war on somebody. Sometimes i just overextend myself and attack more than one civ at a time, at that point my slow decline start!

I have to calm down a bit during the ancient era.... I can not attack all the world with Legions (even if the Roman did that)!

Saluti

notyoueither · March 30, 2002, 21:14

The lesson there Giovanni...

One at a time.

Even Rome did not try to conquer Carthage and the Gauls at the same time.