Wonder Possibilities

[Leonidas]

Is this possible in CTP2:


When a civilization builds a Wonder, it could appear as a 2D image on the terrain next to the civ that built it. This Wonder would confer its normal benefits on the civ in general and would also give the city that built it some bonuses such as extra gold or production (people would travel far and wide to see this Wonder of the World).

This would not be done for all the Wonders but for a select few. You could do it for: Pyramids, Stonehenge, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Great Lighthouse, etc

For example, when a civ builds the Great Pyramids, they would appear as a beautifully rendered 2D icon on that civ's territory. The Pyramids would have a physical prescence, and wouldn't just be a name on an inventory list.

I think it would be great, when travelling through another civ's territory, to come across the Pyramids in all their glory. Imagine the possibilities!

I think adding something like this would add an extra touch to the glory of building a great civilization. To my knowledge this type of thing has never been done in a game before (except in AoE).

What do you think? Is this possible?

[Locutus]

That would indeed be very cool It can probably be done by making the wonder a tile improvement and building it through SLIC...

[Leonidas]

That's good news Locutus

All we need now are some artists to be inspired enough to create these Wonders. . .

Personally, it would be awesome to see these Wonders towering above the terrain throughout the world. . .

[Leonidas]

I have used these pictures elsewhere, but here are a few "Wonders" to help us spark our imaginations:

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Locutus
That would indeed be very cool It can probably be done by making the wonder a tile improvement and building it through SLIC...

Assuming we can get new tile improvements in. That would involve TileEdit, and so far I have had no luck assigning new TileSet Indices to new tile improvements.

[Locutus]

Didn't Cradle add some new tile improvements? And the WWII scenario? You could study that as well to see how Activision did it...

[Immortal Wombat]

Cradle's ones are using existing TileSet Indices, the half-built tile improvements. The WW2 scenario has got custom Tile Files, I don't know how they added them, using the Activision program I assume. (). We could edit them, and get two more tile imps, but they're slotted in at 85 and 88.
Maybe #83-99 are available, its worth trying I suppose.

[Locutus]

If Activision was able to add tile imps afterwards, there should not be any reason why we can't. I find it very hard to believe that there would be a hardcoded limit of 88 tile imps...
If I have the time I'll have a look at the thing myself, but there are already so many other things on my to-do list...

[Immortal Wombat]

I agree, there shouldn't be a hard-coded limit, but wherever I add the new tile imps, it displays as roads :/

[Martin Gühmann]

There shouldn't be a such a low limit as also every the single road graphic can be accessed over the tileimp.txt as improvment. I hope you don't use the road class for your tile improvment, Ben. Otherwise I could take a look on your *.til file and tilimp.txt.

-Martin

[Leonidas]

Sounds like you all have some excellent ideas.

I think Wonders of the World have been one of the most neglected things in the Civ series. At least in Civ 2 and CTP2 they have Wonder movies; in Civ 3 they didn't even have that. . .

Here is a discussion about Wonders from a couple of years ago. Reading through it, I was struck by how relevant it still is today:

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum35/HTML/000107.html


In particular Harlan's comments:


"Picking your wonder at the start of the game doesn't work for me at all. Like the ancient Egyptians are gonna know they'll want the Internet in 6000 years? But a limit to the number of wonders you can build by age, that's the ticket.

Instead of having wonders tend to make the stronger stronger and the weak weaker, the effect would be more even. The amount of wonders allowed per age would depend on how long the ages will be. It might also depend on how many players (imagine if youre playing with 2 civs in a game vs. 9). But the main point is, have a strict limit.

This idea is so good it should go in the standard CTP2 setup, not just a SLIC addon. At least have it as an option when you start the game."

If somehow, it can be possible to make building and having a Wonder truly a great thing, then I think they will not only have importance, but will be inspiring as well.

Imagine seeing these Wonders dotting the landscape of the world. Heck, I'd probably build units just so I could travel around the world just to see the Wonders that all the Civs were building

[Leonidas]

Perhaps a starting point for the Pyramids icon might be with the "Pyramid city type" that is found in the City Mod included in Cradle and others.

These pyramids could be improved upon and given a bigger and better look to represent this Wonder.

The pyramids of long ago looked far different than they do today. While the bulk of the Pyramid's core was constructed of 4,000- to 40,000-pound blocks of soft limestone, the outer layer of the Pyramid was made of a beautifully bright, protective layer of polished stone. These outer "casing stones" are missing today because about 600 years ago they were stolen by Arabs, (This accounts for the very worn appearance of the Pyramid today, since the inner limestone blocks are not immune to attack by the elements of wind, rain, and sandstorm.) This protective covering was made up of 100-inch-thick, 20-ton blocks of hard, white polished limestone, similar to marble but superior in hardness and in durability against the elements. To top it off, the pyramids were capped with gold. . . .

Imagine what they must have looked like! In the bright sun they would have shone brilliantly. The polished casing stones, 144,000 in all, were so brilliant that they could literally be seen from the mountains of Israel hundreds of miles away. On bright mornings and late afternoons, sunlight reflected by this vast mirrored surface of 5-1/4 acres distinguished the Pyramid as being visible from the moon.

What a sight they must have been. . .










Not to mention what the Sphinx would have looked like:

[Locutus]

WAIT A F*CKING MINUTE!!!!!!! I know this is off-topic but I've been looking for this for this over 18 months!!! (now, where's that : party : smilie when you need it?)

Quoting MrOrge from that thread:

int_f mod_CityHappiness(city_t city, int_t happiness)
{
if(CityHasWonder(city, WonderDB(WONDER_SLICED_BREAD)) {
// Add 5 happiness to the city that invented sliced bread
return happiness + 5;
}
return happiness;
}

So, the mod_CityHappiness function *does* work, contrary to what I always believed. This probably means mod_UnitAttack, mod_UnitRangedAttack and mod_UnitDefense work as well, which opens up some really nice new possibilities for SLICers, presuming we can find out what arguments they require...

Although it was completely by accident, Leonidas: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

(Stupid thing is, I vividly remember that thread, I just don't recall ever seeing that particular post before)

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Locutus
I've been looking for this for this over 18 months!!! (now, where's that : party : smilie when you need it?)

Although it was completely by accident, Leonidas: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

(Stupid thing is, I vividly remember that thread, I just don't recall ever seeing that particular post before)

Locutus: Glad that link provided seed for some inspiration Best of luck in your efforts. . .

[Leonidas]

Looking at these pyramids raises an interesting thought: Since many ancient cultures had their own distinct-looking pyramids, it might be interesting to have groups of nations within a cultural block be able to build only a certain type of pyramid (ie. countries in the middle-east and surrounding areas build the classic pyramids; countries in the Americas, would build the Mayan/Aztec-type pyramids; etc...):

This would really add to the flavour of the game. So there could be about 3 or 4 different types of pyramids that could be built, depending on the civ you play. . .


Mexican Pyramids

They were often painted red so that they would shine in the sun:















Peruvian Pyramids:







Chinese Pyramids:









Heck, they've even found pyramids in the ocean off the coast of Japan:

[The Big Mc]

Hi I cant seam to get my head around this idea of you having trouble with tile imps

When I made my undersea fortification using a moded version of the force filed work fine

Oh and the pyramids under the sea in Japan it’s a harbour from the ice age

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Locutus
WAIT A F*CKING MINUTE!!!!!!! I know this is off-topic but I've been looking for this for this over 18 months!!! (now, where's that : party : smilie when you need it?)

That is indeed great news! So if we can get the other 4 working, we can mod unit stats whilst in the game? That would be great.
The party smilie is on Civfanatics btw...

Big MC, did you alter the improvement graphics and add it into a modded tile file? Or was it already there?

[Pedrunn]

Yet you must remember to make this tile improvement impossible to be pillaged.

This is for sure a terrific idea.
The tile improvement should also give a add in gold (tourism).

[Immortal Wombat]

Oh yeah, one more thing, the Lighthouse and Colossus would look great on the map, but wouldn't work unless they were limited to cities bordering water.

And adding these landmark wonders would constitute a major reworking of the wonder tree. Would these be a MedMod/Cradle addon?

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
I agree, there shouldn't be a hard-coded limit, but wherever I add the new tile imps, it displays as roads :/

You coul change the terrain instead of add tile improvements.

[hexagonian]

This would be so cool to be able to add the Wonder visual to the map....if this can be set up, I would get it into Cradle in a heartbeat.

BTW, Leonidas, is that top pic of the Mexican pyramids from Chichen Itza? I visited that site on my honeymoon (back in '86). Incredible place...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
And adding these landmark wonders would constitute a major reworking of the wonder tree. Would these be a MedMod/Cradle addon?

Don't have much time to work things out right now, but I certainly would want this in HoC, I already planned on re-doing the whole Wonder concept anyway...

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by The Big Mc
Oh and the pyramids under the sea in Japan it’s a harbour from the ice age

The Big Mc: Hi

Just curious where you learned that. It seems to be a very sophisticated looking structure to have been created so far back in time. . .

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by hexagonian
This would be so cool to be able to add the Wonder visual to the map....if this can be set up, I would get it into Cradle in a heartbeat.

BTW, Leonidas, is that top pic of the Mexican pyramids from Chichen Itza? I visited that site on my honeymoon (back in '86). Incredible place...

hexagonian: I agree - if you guys can add Wonders to the map in CTP2, you will have created a first in TBS games; no other civ/strategy game has accomplished this. . .

Some of the Wonders could even take up 2 or 3 tiles depending on the Wonder. For example, the Mexican Pyramid style could replicate the Pyramid of the Sun and Moon complex as noted in the pic above. This was a huge complex of pyramids. On the map, this would look awesome. . .

We are only limited by our imaginations. . .

Imagine huge, free-standing Stelas, statutes, Complexes, Buildings. . .

I think that pic is from Chichen Itza. But there are tons of pyramids scatterd throughout Mexico and Central/South America. . . I agree. Incredible place. I think there is still so much we still need to learn about the past, and these cultures. . .

I love ancient history and could spend hours reading/looking at this stuff

BTW, they are in the process of building a new Great Library in Egypt. . .

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Locutus


Don't have much time to work things out right now, but I certainly would want this in HoC, I already planned on re-doing the whole Wonder concept anyway...

Locutus: I looked through your HoC - I'm impressed with the work you have put into this concept. You HAVE been busy. . .

[Leonidas]

It is interesting that one of the Mexican Pyramids (called the Pyramid of the Sun) is actually larger than the Great Pyramid at Ghiza.

No one knows who actually built it or what it was actually called. When the Aztecs made their appearance, this pyramid was already very ancient in age. . .

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Just curious where you learned that. It seems to be a very sophisticated looking structure to have been created so far back in time. . .

Actually, it's not even proven that those structures are manmade. We don't have the slightest clue on their age. The location where these structures were first discovered (they have been found in other places as well since then) are located is off the coast of Yonaguni. Some interesting links:
Morien Institute (claims they are natural structures)
Graham Hancock's website (a fierce defender of the 'lost civilization' theory)
Crystalinks (IMNSHO a bunch New Age weirdo's but they know how to do their homework)
Robert Schoch's website (undecided on the issue)

(Note that I already included it as Wonder in HoC, says enough about how I feel about the issue )

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Locutus


Actually, it's not even proven that those structures are manmade. We don't have the slightest clue on their age. The location where these structures were first discovered (they have been found in other places as well since then) are located is off the coast of Yonaguni. Some interesting links:
Morien Institute (claims they are natural structures)
Graham Hancock's website (a fierce defender of the 'lost civilization' theory)
Crystalinks (IMNSHO a bunch New Age weirdo's but they know how to do their homework)
Robert Schoch's website (undecided on the issue)

(Note that I already included it as Wonder in HoC, says enough about how I feel about the issue )

Locutus: I agree with the undecided nature of the debate regarding these underwater structures. No one really knows. . .

But those structures certainly have right-angled shapes, which is something rarely seen in nature.

BTW, did you ever see Hancock's "In Search of the Lost Civilization"? It was a 4-part series on TV. While I don't necessarily agree with all of his conclusions, he did present a fascinating visual guide to all of the major ancient sites around the world. . .

Here's a link to many underwater structures found around the world:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...&ie=ISO-8859-1

Who says there's no mystery left in the world?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Leonidas
It is interesting that one of the Mexican Pyramids (called the Pyramid of the Sun) is actually larger than the Great Pyramid at Ghiza.

The Pyramid in Giza is higher, the one is Teotihuacan has more volume. I think the White Pyramid in China beats both their @sses in both size and volume...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Leonidas
BTW, did you ever see Hancock's "In Search of the Lost Civilization"? It was a 4-part series on TV. While I don't necessarily agree with all of his conclusions, he did present a fascinating visual guide to all of the major ancient sites around the world. . .

Heck, I think I even read one of his books (but that was a long time ago and my memory has more holes than Swiss cheese ). Yes, his theories are interesting but sometimes a little far-fetched and silly.
One example: I think it was him - but it could have been someone else - who found out that 91 was a recurring number in numerous temples and pyramids and stuff around the world and claimed that this was evidence of a lost civilization. However, 91 * 4 + 1 = 365, so it's not all that remarkable, really
But there are plenty of other issues in which Hancock and other people with 'far-out' ideas (such as e.g. Clyde Winters) have a point, something that other historians and archeologists ought to take more seriously, IMHO...

Here's a link to many underwater structures found around the world:

Cool, I didn't know that particular site yet. Added to my favourites