Firaxis, give us some patch gossip!!

alexman · March 19, 2002, 17:44

Dan, Soren, Jeff... Anyone! We are running out of things to talk about, so people are just complaining instead. Firaxis, you better spark some life back into these forums by giving us some info about the upcoming patch!

-> Any hints on how you are fixing the rapid tech advancement now that the AI trades so aggressively? Are you just increasing the tech costs? Are you reducing the tech devaluation?

-> How will you prevent the AI from starving itself with the increased 40 turn penalty for drafting and pop-rushing in Communism? Will you make the AI more reasonable in this respect, or will you reduce the penalty?

->Will the human still be able to have slave camps (size-one cities with specialist, used for pop-rushing after joined by a captured worker), or was this an intended part of the game?

-> Will you make any unit tweaks so that all of them are worth building? (privateer, musketman, marine, paratrooper, cruise missile currently are not. See player 1's patch suggestion MOD for more needed unit tweaks) Will you make scientists and taxmen a viable alternative to land workers? Will you make espionage worth performing? Will you eliminate dead ends in the upgrade paths so we can't build swordsmen, longbowmen, and frigates in the modern age? (Also addressed by the above MOD)

-> Any plans on adjusting the corruption model? Communism especially suffers for large empires. Did you intend Republic to be the best all-around government? Any chance of corruption-reducing improvements having at least some effect for very distant cities?

-> Will this be the long-awaited patch with an editor that lets us really create scenarios? (as opposed to only mods and maps) Or are you saving that for the expansion pack?

-> Will the city governors ever do what you tell them to do? (When I tell them to maximize production, I want them to really maximize it without starving the city. If care about also producing extra food, I will also check the maximize food option). Or is that not going to happen since the governors are only available because the AI uses them. So we won't get a true production (or commerce, or food) maximum because the AI would never want to do that. If this is the case, could we please not default to getting extra food in a size-6 or size-12 city that doesn't have an aqueduct/hospital?

->When can we expect the patch? (OK, OK, I know you won't answer this one)

simwiz2 · March 19, 2002, 17:51

"(privateer, musketman, marine, paratrooper, cruise missile currently are not"

Musketmen are worthless?

Or do you mean musketeers? Because musketmen are the best defense vs knights and longbows, which could easily kill pikemen.

Marines are good for coastal raids, and for attacking a city and taking it immediately so that you can unload troops into the city and use the RR's that turn.

player1 · March 19, 2002, 17:52

Thanks!

player1 · March 19, 2002, 17:58

Quote:

Originally posted by simwiz2
"(privateer, musketman, marine, paratrooper, cruise missile currently are not"

Musketmen are worthless?

Or do you mean musketeers? Because musketmen are the best defense vs knights and longbows, which could easily kill pikemen.

Not wortless, just expensive.
I would rather buy two Pikemen then one Musketmen (if there is such option).

Suggestion: 3/4/1 cost 50

Quote:

Marines are good for coastal raids, and for attacking a city and taking it immediately so that you can unload troops into the city and use the RR's that turn.

Yes, if you waste swarm of these units.

Suggestion: 10/8/1 cost 100

LaRusso · March 20, 2002, 03:51

- significantly raise costs of the spaceship parts, so that one gets smart weapons, stealth and SDI before spaceship to AC. it's only logical!
- redo UN function. the way it is now it is too easy to win on it. perhaps introduce 'foreign aid' as described in earlier posts
- disable the mode whereby i have a MPP with two AI civs and they have MPP too, I declare war to one of them and then wait until they attack me, trigerring a DoW of the second AI on the first AI. That is rather stupid.

player1 · March 20, 2002, 03:57

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso
- significantly raise costs of the spaceship parts, so that one gets smart weapons, stealth and SDI before spaceship to AC. it's only logical!

I've tried this in my MOD.
And it didn't woked (2.5 times more expensive)
It was again "discover Laser and then poof".
At lest I build SS Engine for 25 turns (1600 Shileds).
And AI haven't even finished one SS part (there were pretty passive).

Mabe if I try 5 times more expensive?

Dis · March 20, 2002, 03:58

did I mention I wipe my ass with this game?

player1 · March 20, 2002, 04:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
did I mention I wipe my ass with this game?

And what it has with this topic?

notyoueither · March 20, 2002, 04:09

Nothing. He's just cruising for a ban. I guess, if his post came after his thread of a similar thought was deleted.

Salve

Hurricane · March 20, 2002, 06:24

I think he is just making sure Soren won´t answer this thread.

player1 · March 20, 2002, 07:25

Anyway...

Has anyone done anything succesfully with increase on SS parts cost?

I mean for both human enjoyment and AI capability.

Pius Popprasch · March 20, 2002, 08:18

I like the SS costs like they are. I really don't want to delay the tedious end game. And I don't want to defend my mountain cities with Marines. Marines with increased power need to be very expensive.
I agree with the Musketmen. They should get more attack strength. To maintain the role of the Knights Gunpowder then needs to be more expensive. Most MODs are completely out of balance.

player1 · March 20, 2002, 08:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Pius Popprasch
I really don't want to delay the tedious end game. And I don't want to defend my mountain cities with Marines.

There is no such thing as mountain cities.

player1 · March 20, 2002, 08:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Pius Popprasch
I like the SS costs like they are. I really don't want to delay the tedious end game. And I don't want to defend my mountain cities with Marines. Marines with increased power need to be very expensive.
I agree with the Musketmen. They should get more attack strength. To maintain the role of the Knights Gunpowder then needs to be more expensive. Most MODs are completely out of balance.

And, someone would like to use Manuf. Plants before finishing Space Ship.

AJ Corp. The FAIR · March 20, 2002, 08:34

IMO our (many Apolyton posters) complaints about certain aspects of the game were justified.

And we did bring these 'unrealistic errors' to their attention (many different threads, many repliers).

At CivFanatics they've recently revealed some light on next patch... I guess they didn't post here at Apolyton yet, by the recent eruption of citicism on the game by many of us here.

So at least they're working on some aspects, let's hope (and expect!!) they'll continue working on all major aspects to improve fun playing (don't forget to reduce tech accelerations)!

I guess right now, at this time, we should just give them the benefit of the doubt ... meaning: let's 'spare' them for a while ...

next patch is on its way..!

AJ

Inverse Icarus · March 20, 2002, 15:28

firaxis is by far one of the most understanding, and giving companies out there. no ones debating that, they take care of their fan base. the problem with firaxis (in my opinion) is that they dont VOCALIZE their struggles to fix the problems we point out. so even if they're fixing it, people are oblivious, and they get louder and more pissed off. firaxis is out there, developing solutions to every little problem you could possibly whine about.

they're just not talkative.

multiplayer.

Elucidus · March 20, 2002, 21:37

Yeah I have to agree. They don't comunicate it, I guess because if they say they are working on a fix and it isn't in the next patch they think we will sue or something.

Jaybe · March 20, 2002, 21:53

Yes Firaxis, tell us about things that you've been CONSIDERING doing in patch ! We want to hear war-STORIES from the 'patch' room!

If a change/feature was nixed, don't be specific as to who did the hatchet job, just mention that either for gameplay or for coding/sideffect/bug reasons it was cancelled. Keep it in a story format (sort of).

As long as you aren't too specific (e.g., "we are working on for the next update"), you've given yourself an out in case it doesn't make it.

JB

Elucidus · March 20, 2002, 22:07

Yeah we would be happier anticipating new changes and finding out that some of them didn't make it, but that most of them did. We could have plans ready, but not dependant on the possibilities.

Dienstag · March 21, 2002, 03:20

In the spirit of the Acadamy Awards, coming up this weekend, let's play a game called Predict the Patch.

vote for your favorite candidates in each of these categories:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1.) Most likely to be included in upcoming patch:*
o Reworked (i.e. reduced) AI tech trading
o Fixed AI Communism implosion
o Size 1 cities no longer inordinately safe from bombardment

* "Lethal Bombardment" was disqualified from this category, after broke it's non-disclosure contract.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

2.) Most obsure documented changes in upcoming patch:
o "fixed bug with farmland"
o "changed "multi" savegame code to something else, Mwuhahahaha!"
o "diScontInueD the sublimInal meSsaGe prOceDure"
o "no more unexpected asteroid impacts"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

3.) Most popular undocumented changes in upcoming patch:
o Flood plains look 20% less radioactive
o End of game replay now has uncanny parallels, when watched simultaneously with Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon album
o "Gracious" animations for female leaders revised
o AI diplomacy decisions sent to random number generator to increase combat randomness

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

4.) Most Likely to be put off 'til next patch:
o Editor allows aircraft with range > 8
o Firepower
o Warning before culture flips
o Game uninstalls itself after spearmen defeat tank

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

5.) Least Likely to be included in upcoming patch:
o Multiplayer scenarios with wonder movies.
o non-Kenny G music
o Musketeer unit's +1 attack bonus changed to +1 cultural bonus
o Everything Vel could ask for in a strategy game

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

6.) Most Likely to never happen in a patch:
o Simultaneous turns
o Gradually decreasing amounts of nicotine
o Unit Workshop
o Cylindrical world with squares changed to Icosahedral world with hexagons. That, or a Mobius strip.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Everyone not from certain counties in Florida is welcome to vote.

edit: Clarified which Dark Side of the Moon I was reffering to, in case it wasn't clear. Categories now numbered, 'cause it's better that way.

notyoueither · March 21, 2002, 03:32

Excuse me sir, my ballot is dimpled. How are you going to count this?

Dienstag · March 21, 2002, 04:30

...who said anything about counting?

The winners are irrelevant. My insidious purpose is to see if I can tempt Firaxis to respond and maybe let something slip.

darn...shouldn't have said that.

Well, at least I still have my super-secret other insidious purpose of trying to get Firaxis to offer me a job because of my clever posts.

darn again.....or maybe not....

notyoueither · March 21, 2002, 05:23

OK. I'll promote your career.

Category 1. Fixed AI Communism implosion

Category 2. You mean there were ever any questions about divinity?

Category 3. You mean the Pink Floyd album? I vote for that.

Category 4. Spearman defeats *blank* results in format of hard drive is definitely unlikely.

Category 5. Well. Vel is a tall order. And pink being cultural is a good idea, so I'd have to say that music by the Clash is least likely.

Category 6. The geometry gibberish. That'll never happen. Are you a Finn?

Did the Democrats have any input on your ballot plans?

Pius Popprasch · March 21, 2002, 06:13

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
And, someone would like to use Manuf. Plants before finishing Space Ship.

You can build them if you want.

player1 · March 21, 2002, 07:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Pius Popprasch
You can build them if you want.

Exept if you want to finish SS as quickly as possibile.
It that case you won't bother to discover Robotic.

Dienstag · March 21, 2002, 16:57

Quote:

Are you a Finn?

No, but I'll add that to the list of nationalities I've been accused of being. I'm totally American (i.e. from the USA). Are Finns notorious for advanced geometry, or something? I wasn't aware...

P.S. no Democrats offered any input on the ballot, so I just did the best I could.

Deornwulf · March 21, 2002, 21:46

I resent the implication that none of us in Palm Beach County know how to vote!
My vote is the weaker civs giv me bananas.
So there

Elucidus · March 21, 2002, 23:24