Imperialism

New Yorker · February 11, 2001, 00:34

i heard that some form of nationalism is going to make it into Civ3, my question will imperialism make it in?

imperialism was an important part of history ..., but with minor/major civs being put into civ3, than it would be easlier to put in imperialism? right?

any ideas on imperialism

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A New Yorker that is a freak
and who always on the train takes a leak
-well it ain't me

Henrik · February 11, 2001, 04:46

Look at the game whit the same name for Ideas.

Biddles · February 11, 2001, 22:07

Yeah, one idea. It would be really hard to implement, and even then it would be really complex.

If firaxis can figure out a good system though, I'm all for it.

The Viceroy · February 12, 2001, 04:57

Being the Viceroy .. Id just have to agree with that

It is difficult to implement , cos there are so many different models of imperialism .. The British alone had several different types ..

You have economic imperialism .. eg India until 1850's .. where the East India trading company controlled the resources .. but allowed an amount of self government.

Then the Empress of India ... Direct rule, the Shah was sent packing, and the British Raj was established.

African colonies were again different .. probably more draconian ..

Then we have the "Anglo-colonies" .. Canada, Australia and to a lessor extent , S.Africa. which were given a great deal of autonomy .. and granted their own nationhood back in the late 1880-1890's.

So how do we implement all this ?? Ive so many idea's .. but there certainly not all practical .. You could have cities that you just take excess gold from, but allow the natives to build what they please ... or you could just control the production, but the units are controlled by the conquered civ ??

Harder still is the end of Imperialism .. how do we model that. In India, Education gave Gandhi and Neeru desires of Independance .. In the US, disatifaction with taxes .. and a feeling of isolation from London .. Canada & Australia just gained independance over time ..

Not a simple task .. but id love to hear any simple yet effective models which could be used, which encapsulates this form of government.

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"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

February 12, 2001, 18:30

quote:

Originally posted by Henrik on 02-11-2001 03:46 AM
Look at the game whit the same name for Ideas.

too detailed, the game.. I wouldn't like to see a CIV game with all the resources and economical characterisitcs like in Imperialism

BUt I guess you're only talking about things like Colonialism - well, I support the minor nation model. Are we going to have minor nations in Civ3, is there a decision made yet?

Roman · February 12, 2001, 20:16

Lets have resources please. Other aspects of imperialism are unneccessary though.

Grumbold · February 13, 2001, 11:57

Imperialism would be a necessary tool if there was a different approach to city limitations. For instance, if you hit the maximum city limit for your government model then you could not directly manage more cities but still establish others under AI mayors. They would be loosely affiliated to you and provide significant wealth, but not be totally under your control. Similarly for colonies founded too far away from your capital. Place excessive demands on them and instead of complying they would revolt and form a new nation. With the growth of world democracy the pressure to divide would become stronger and national pride in the mother country diminish. You have the choice of slowly demanding less and less from them or garrison heavily and wait for an explosion.

February 13, 2001, 15:24

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 02-12-2001 07:16 PM
Lets have resources please. Other aspects of imperialism are unneccessary though.

I say let's have resources AND minor nations!!! minor nations just rule!

Henrik · February 13, 2001, 16:44

Yes, they do

Roman · February 13, 2001, 21:34

quote:

Originally posted by Chaos Warrior on 02-13-2001 02:24 PM
I say let's have resources AND minor nations!!!

Fair enough, but resources should be a priority. So if they have to choose, due to time constraints on design, I vote for resources.

Biddles · February 14, 2001, 06:43

Rescources first, minor nations second.

Wouldn't that be cool though, the high and mighty egyptian empire held to ransom because some minor civ has control over 90% of the worlds uranium.

Grumbold · February 14, 2001, 06:58

That simply isn't a practical prospect. Any resource that becomes valuable is obtained by one means or another. The governments will strike a deal. A company will buy the mineral rights. The major nation will fund a coup to put in place someone more amenable to persuasion. If worst comes to worst, they invade. Physical ownership of the land does not completely block resources from reaching the market. If Civ III is to have a complex resource structure then it will need to have a workable trade system. Even modern attempts to stop war materials from reaching rogue states are not completely effective.