France makes demands and the US laughs hysterically

DinoDoc · March 29, 2002, 00:38

Quote:

France demands no death penalty for terror suspect

France urged the United States on Wednesday to remove the threat of the death penalty for the first suspect indicted in the United States for conspiring with Osama bin Laden (news – web sites) on the September 11 attacks.

Justice Minister Marylise Lebranchu said France, which along with other European Union (news – web sites) partners has no death penalty, could not accept such a punishment for Zacarias Moussaoui, a Frenchman of Moroccan descent.

"Of course, no person benefiting from French consular protection should be executed," she told RMC radio.

Separately, a Foreign Ministry spokesman confirmed France would take steps to ensure he was not executed if found guilty by a U.S. federal court.

"Yes, that stems from our general position on the death penalty," the spokesman told a regular news briefing.

France scrapped the death penalty in 1981.

Moussaoui, 33, took flying lessons in the United States and officials there believe he may have been preparing to join one of four hijacking teams. Almost 3,300 people died in the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

I wonder what the French are thinking. Do they really think that we need thier permission to apply domestic laws to a criminal caught in our borders? FYI, the death penalty will be sought in the case. Any guesses on what the effects in France will be?

Imran Siddiqui · March 29, 2002, 00:42

I don't see where the 'demands' are.

It seems they are trying to lobby us to not put him to death... but no demands.

DinoDoc · March 29, 2002, 00:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I don't see where the 'demands' are.

Blame the title of the article.

You might try to actually answering the questions I asked rather than nit-picking.

Kyle · March 29, 2002, 00:50

I'd read that when France ended the use of the death penalty, the majority of their population still supported it. I wonder how much money France has spent to get that to change over the years.

blackice · March 29, 2002, 00:51

Good point Dino It amazes me that countries tell others how to act at the same time whail with self indulgent actions at a whim...

Imran Siddiqui · March 29, 2002, 00:52

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You might try to actually answering the questions I asked rather than nit-picking.

The questions are irrelevant once you figure out the article says they are lobbying the US to commute the sentance if it comes back death... or not issue death at all.

DinoDoc · March 29, 2002, 00:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
they are lobbying the US to commute the sentance if it comes back death... or not issue death at all.

The question is why is it any of thier concern? We caught the man in the continental US. The French opinion is of little or no legal import in cases such as this.

The Mad Monk · March 29, 2002, 01:01

From a radio program I was listening to the other night (Bachelor and Alexander on WABC, for those in the NYC area), France is applying pressure, based on non-cooperation.

A lot of the evidence on this guy is based on French police and other government sources, and without those sources, there is, effectively, little or no case.

When you add that to this:

Quote:

Separately, a Foreign Ministry spokesman confirmed France would take steps to ensure he was not executed if found guilty by a U.S. federal court.

The picture snaps into sharp focus.

Kyle · March 29, 2002, 01:02

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

The question is why is it any of thier concern? We caught the man in the continental US. The French opinion is of little or no legal import in cases such as this.

Europeans always try to get non-death sentences for their citizens here.

They seem to think they can influence us in some ways regarding capital punishment.

TCO · March 29, 2002, 02:11

Well we iced McVey. It's not an anti-French thing. We just don't like killers.

Urban Ranger · March 29, 2002, 03:25

I am against capital punishment. I prefer life imprisonment in hard labour camps without parole

If Moussaoui is found guilty, he should be punished. But what is he guilty of? What is this conspiracy charge thing?

Oldenbarnevelt · March 29, 2002, 05:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
If Moussaoui is found guilty, he should be punished. But what is he guilty of? What is this conspiracy charge thing?

That's an interesting question. Most of the 20 highjackers didn't know what was going to happen until after they boarded the planes.

Roland · March 29, 2002, 06:55

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I wonder what the French are thinking. Do they really think that we need thier permission to apply domestic laws to a criminal caught in our borders? FYI, the death penalty will be sought in the case. Any guesses on what the effects in France will be?

Read your quoted article again.
Find keywords "consular protection"
Anything else ?

laurentius · March 29, 2002, 07:14

Also, did the guy actually do anything? How can you kill someone who hasn't actually commited anything? What's with the capital punishment anyway, who is it going to help?

Dauphin · March 29, 2002, 08:12

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
The question is why is it any of thier concern? We caught the man in the continental US. The French opinion is of little or no legal import in cases such as this.

Next time China wants to try an American for a capital crime, and wants to invoke the DP I will remind you of that statement.

ZoboZeWarrior · March 29, 2002, 08:27

---
"Ces maudits Français !" ...

The Mad Monk · March 29, 2002, 08:29

I think that happens all the time, with Americans who are caught with drugs.

We don't say a word, other than standard legal council. Rightly so.

Kropotkin · March 29, 2002, 08:37

I second Sagacious Dolphins statement. The man in question is a French citizen and that makes it to a issue for the French goverment. Do you remember that american outcry when a brat was about to get whipped with a cane in a southasian country (don't remember the country, Singapore, Burma?)? If THAT was an american issue this is an french issue.

The Mad Monk · March 29, 2002, 08:52

IIRC, most of that 'outcry' was Americans complaining because we couldn't do that to the punks here.

VJ · March 29, 2002, 09:03

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
Also, did the guy actually do anything? How can you kill someone who hasn't actually commited anything? What's with the capital punishment anyway, who is it going to help?

Republicans and they're intelligent kids, which feel that they have more power
when they kill someone? Ah, just kill those. Evil terrorists = France.

Nuke France. After you've nuked Iraq.

March 29, 2002, 10:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

Republicans and they're intelligent kids, which feel that they have more power
when they kill someone? Ah, just kill those. Evil terrorists = France.

Nuke France. After you've nuked Iraq.

Just be sure to send over all those hot maids first

.

General Ludd · March 29, 2002, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You might try to actually answering the questions I asked rather than nit-picking.

Never thought I'd here DinoDoc say that.

DinoDoc · March 29, 2002, 11:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Next time China wants to try an American for a capital crime, and wants to invoke the DP I will remind you of that statement.

OK, if the American was assured of a fair trial, you can certainly feel free to remind me of my statement.

Krop: Do you remember that american outcry when a brat was about to get whipped with a cane in a southasian country (don't remember the country, Singapore, Burma?)?

IIRC, Most of what you heard coming from America was support for caning the punk. I don't think that the government ever took an official position on that matter.

Roland: What are you talking about? I'm not understanding you here.

Kropotkin · March 29, 2002, 12:05

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Most of what you heard coming from America ...

So you actually know what I heard? Well I guess that explains those voices in my head.

Seriously; what I heard it was an outcry and an official statement... Countries usually get involved somewhat when one of their citizens get arrested, I do know the swedish govt often do. Not killing a French citizen might good for relations. Particulary since this man didn't actually do anything so the death penalty seems to be overkill in either case.

Bereta_Eder · March 29, 2002, 12:06

I have no problem (actually I have) with america murdering its own citizens.
But when a European is going to be trialed in the US, death penalty is a no - go.

Bereta_Eder · March 29, 2002, 12:08

The EU should push hard the US to abolish such barbaric acts.

Roland · March 29, 2002, 12:10

"Do they really think that we need thier permission to apply domestic laws to a criminal caught in our borders?"

No, but France has a legitimite interest in the case from consular protection. What's the problem with that ?

Kyle · March 29, 2002, 12:10

In regards to punishments, I'm outraged that US soldier only got 32 months for rape in Okinawa. Seems awfully lenient.

As to the previous questions, there are a few US conspiracy laws that allow for the death penalty.

Personally, I'd rather him get life (if he's convicted) in a Federal prision. To deny his martyrdom...plus, he'd probably get shanked within 5 years after the guards tell the general population who he is.

Vesayen · March 29, 2002, 12:13

I think in the interest of inter-national relations we should honor france's request.

DinoDoc · March 29, 2002, 12:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Not killing a French citizen might good for relations.

Not threatening us for following domestic law might be good for relations as well. Anyway, even though that the government is seeking the death penalty he isn't guaranteed to recieve it. The jury will be the final arbitar at this level.

Quote:

Particulary since this man didn't actually do anything so the death penalty seems to be overkill in either case.

As far as I can tell, conspirators are still liable for the actions of the conspiracy even if they are prevented from taking an active part in the final part of the plan through a quirk of events.