Cities Independently Research Technology

DarkCloud · February 19, 2001, 21:09

In Civ 3 you should be able to set what each cities scientists research:

Thus you could have:

6 cities (60 science) researching INDUSTRY
3 cities (10 science) researching TRADE
10 cities (180 science) researching OIL

etc.

airdrik · February 20, 2001, 15:22

Sounds good. A better way to implement the multi-tech-researching idea. It's even more realistic too.

Adm.Naismith · February 21, 2001, 05:57

Darkcloud, it seems to me yours it's a complex kind of "multiple research". I know in old ages researches are more related to single cities than nations, but in game terms...

Setting specific research for every city can be a nightmare IMHO: compute research points wanted for every research, then distribute them, then reassign tasks after every complete research... for 40 or 50 cities?

Sorry, I won't like to do this.
Back to the root, we can like multiple research (more realistic IMO) or single research (good old Civ style, it requires a more defined choice of tech).

If we like multiple res., I vote for a "national" slider set, used to divide research point to only four branches (like SMAC) of blind research: Explore, Discover, Build, and Conquer.

Every slider can show how many turns are "guessed" before next discover. If your civ increase research points (via new cities, new wonders or new city facilities) we should have new points
a) evenly redistributed (easy to do but not very effective)
or
b) automatically assigned to the branch who will gain more, i.e. the branch where adding research point will reduce number of turns before next discover (or more near to this line). Of course, this apply assuming research points needed will increase as you research for more advanced discoveries.

This can work also without blind research, simply adding a "research selection box" near every slider.

BTW, if someone is ready to send a post about "multiple research is silly because dividing the tech points you have four research done in the same time than queuing them", please don't!

With multiple research you can always change your mind about priority on research branch: if you fall in a war you can "freeze" every branch other than Conquer, then restart without losing your efforts when Peace time come back.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Biddles · February 21, 2001, 07:53

quote:

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 02-21-2001 04:57 AM
Setting specific research for every city can be a nightmare IMHO

Not really. As long as preset groups where you can add cities to research groups when you found them is included, then change what the whole group is researching, it wouldn't be the micromanagement hell that you'd think it would be.

Personally I don't really care either way. Might be nice for something different, but the tech system works fine anyway. Either way, doesn't worry me that much as long as it works.

DarkCloud · February 21, 2001, 21:03

Admiral your idea of a slider is good- but I would like to say this for my idea...

You could have preset groups on a diagram like so-

-----------
Group 1 "Dynamite" 50pts
Group 2 "Engineering" 20pts
Group 3 "Refrigeration" 25pts
-----------

This would slow down research overall more, but if you had a seperate screen in the "Science" tab, then for those people who like customization, there would be an option in the later stages of the game to multi-task your researches.

Earlier in the game it would be useless because the comp. would get ahead of you in research... but in the late game, it might be better to multi-task if you have many large science cities...

Swissy · February 21, 2001, 21:22

Imperialism had a system of research where you could work on three techologies at once. Your research efforts(in Imperialism it was gold) could be divided between the three as you saw fit.

In civ3 you could start with one tech, then allow two when a certain tech is acheived(writing), adding a tech slot in each age thereafter. This simulates the ability of advanced civs to work on many technologies at one time.

But then considering the time Firaxis has had the civ3 project, I doubt they will be adding anything to the game now.

Cyclotron · February 22, 2001, 01:13

Having multiple cities research is interesting... but practical? I don't really know, but I am inclined to say "not really" to this idea of more micromanagement.

What I don't like is blind research. I don't care about realism if it makes it so I can't choose specific techs. I don't want to be forced to do anything in Civ that I don't want to if at all possible.

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"Any shred of compassion left in me was snuffed out forever when they cast me into the flames..."
- Marsil, called the Pretender

BRENNANonTHEmoor · February 22, 2001, 01:38

dark cloud lord is correct! that make that shiit much more realistic i like the idea, infact since i like it so much i will credit myself with thinking of it.

also i cant stand conservative bastarrds that are M'kay is it practical M'kay ahh it sounds good M'kay... SHUT YOUR FUCCING FACE UNCLE FUCCA

Adm.Naismith · February 22, 2001, 06:27

Swissy:

quote:

But then considering the time Firaxis has had the civ3 project, I doubt they will be adding anything to the game now.

May be, may be not. No official tentative release date, yet, so who know?

Anyway, at the forum we often shot in the dark, but probably some suggestions are near enough to Firaxis CIV 3 model and concept that they can grab some little enhancement here and there without redesign from scratch the work already done.

They surely will tweak code often, until beta start, for better playability, balancing, more players funny... bug removal, too

I once red that SMAC border was added almost as a last moment feature, neverthless it's one of the great innovation over CIV 2 model, IMHO.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Adm.Naismith · February 22, 2001, 06:47

Darkcloud, about your post

quote:

Admiral your idea of a slider is good- but I would like to say this for my idea...

You could have preset groups on a diagram like so ------------
Group 1 "Dynamite" 50pts
Group 2 "Engineering" 20pts
Group 3 "Refrigeration" 25pts

If I understand you, groups are pools of cities that produce research points. Number of available research points for group (assigned for researching discovery) are given by the sum of cities that join that group.

If not, I probably miss your point, please correct me

My worry is that aggregating group of cities will be another management trouble by itself: you must carefully balance city aggregation to maximize research point effects, checking again when a wonder or city facility change some value

OTOH, if Regions will be implemented in the game, I think you can assign different research for every Region, leaving out management of groups but keeping your suggestion main part.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Biddles · February 22, 2001, 08:07

quote:

Originally posted by Swissy on 02-21-2001 08:22 PM
But then considering the time Firaxis has had the civ3 project, I doubt they will be adding anything to the game now.

You know that the idea is good when someone pops up with that sentence.

Tiberius · February 22, 2001, 10:42

I like more Adm.Naismith's solution. I find much more easier to use a national slider, used to divide research points between certain domains/techs.
I don't want another queue manager, just for grouping cities in certain discovery projects (IMHO more unnecesarry micromanagement ).
Maybe, but only maybe, if civ3 will have regions, then assigning a project to a region makes sens (especially smaller projects, improvements on an already discovered tech), but otherwise I say the "national slider" is a much better idea.

February 23, 2001, 03:56

If there is any system of multiple research, a bell-curve will have to be added to the research cost, giving you smaller benefits the more research you but into one tech (which is the system I hope they implement). Otherwise there is no advantage to researcing multiple items over researching them one at a time (What's better getting 4 techs in 4 turns OR 1 tech in 1 turn for 4 turns?).

But I do hope they add a multiple research system, and in addition to the bell-curve, add some randomness so you have an "Estimated Time of Discovery" instead of knowing you'll have the tech in X turns.

Adm.Naismith · February 23, 2001, 04:35

I've got one!

Trachmir, if you read few posts above you can see mine (a bit kidding):

quote:

BTW, if someone is ready to send a post about "multiple research is silly because dividing the tech points you have four research done in the same time than queuing
them", please don't!
With multiple research, you can always change your mind about priority on research branch: if you fall in a war you can "freeze" every branch other than Conquer, then restart without losing your efforts when Peace time come back.

BTW, bell curve is interesting and realistic, maybe a bit difficult to understand for players (you make a choice and hopefully will have a consistent, straight feedback: if system act different many people will be confused or cry about bugs).

Estimated time of discovery is pretty nice, and I saw it mentioned in some old thread about Discovery & Tech tree. It should work two way: sometime you discover a bit in advance, sometime a bit later than original extimation. Is not a fundamental topic for Firaxis, but if they'll tweak the research model it should be considered as a nice touch.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

DarkCloud · February 24, 2001, 01:02

You have it right on the mark when you describe my idea, Admiral.

However the reason you suggested it was bad is precisely the reason I believe it is good... More management!

But, you slider idea, once again is just as good...

Urban Ranger · February 24, 2001, 08:33

I have rather liked the research system in Master of Orion, where you distribute research points to different branches proportionally. Unfortunately they did away with it in MoM 2. A step backwards IMO.

The reason that not everything should be put in one single project is exactly the diminishing of returns, or, in terms of Murphy's Law: "Adding more programmers to a project that is already late will only delay it further."