Recommended reading for civ players

[DaveV]

The Harry Potter thread on the strategy forum has turned into something of a book discussion group; here's an "official" thread for that purpose.

I'll start off with two suggestions: first, for Lord of the Rings fans, I recommend Bored of the Rings by the Harvard Lampoon. I read this book about 25 years ago, but I still remember LMAO while reading it . In retrospect, it is probably somewhat sophomoric, but I was probably a sophomore when I read it . An approximate example from the mines of Moria:

quote: A dark figure emerged from the midst of the narcs. Written in cruel runes across his chest was the word "Villanova". "Aieeee!" cried Legolam, "a Ballhog!"

On a more serious note, my favorite set of books remains Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun tetrology (from memory, the book titles are The Shadow of the Torturer, The Claw of the Conciliator, The Sword of the Lictor, and The Citadel of the Autarch). There's also a sequel, The Urth of the New Sun. The world of these books could make a great scenario. Particularly in the third book, there are a lot of details given on the military units.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited August 25, 2000).]

[Sten Sture]

Two topical studies:

The Rise and Fall of Great Powers by Paul Kennedy

how nations get to be tops and what happens then...

The Great Game by Peter Hopkirk
England v Russia v nature in Central Asia - great intrigue in rugged unknown terrain. (Michael Dauman's scenario is a great addition)

[Oldman]

I think 2 great books for Civ players to read are The Art of War by Sun Tzu and The Prince by Machiavelli. Though not essential reading are very interesting books and feature very strongly in Civ2!!!

and i might try that Bored of the Rings where do i get it from?

[DaveV]

Oldman - your buddies at amazon.com have it. The authors are Beard and Kenney.

[Oldman]

Cheers DaveV, ordered it from the .co.uk variety of amazon, it'll be on my doormat in 19 hours time for the grand price of £4.26!!!! God, i love the internet, ha ha!!!!!


Also, has anyone read much of the Pern Novels? by Anne McCathry (spelling?!?!) are they any good? i read a short story about some Runner of Pern, which was good...

[DaveV]

Oldman - I read a Dragonriders of Pern series by Ann McCaffrey (I think), about 20 years ago (before I was married, or owned a computer, and I still read books ). Good light reading, not particularly memorable at this remove.

[SCG]

I've read almost all of them - haven't read the last couple. They are enjoyable to read, although McCaffrey has a tendancy in this series to retell the same story over and over again, but from different viewpoints and call it a different book. I've never been a fan of a writer putting out a book just to have a new title in a popular series, and in her later books (starting in the early 90's) it seems like her publisher was pushing her to do just that, not just in the Pern series (which is probably around 15 books or so), but with some of her other series as well. Basically, if it is pre-90's by McCaffery, I would probably recommend it. After that, it would depend on how much you want to find out what happened next in the worlds she created.

[Oldman]

Fair enough DaveV, i won't bother buying, maybe if i see one in a Library i might read it...

What you guys ought to read though is The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham, it's a damn good book, they just made a diabolical mess of the film!!!


Edit: Typo's
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited August 25, 2000).]

[St Leo]

Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars are fairly good despite the sequels being filled with a lot of BS. If you feel like ROFLOLMAOing, I recommend The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (with the four sequels), Catch 22 (with its sequel), and Red Dwarf (I didn't read the sequel yet, but my Chem teacher said it was good). Oh, and what omnipotent ruler can live without reading Brave New World and 1984?

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Scouse Gits]

Amen to all the above - with the slight caveat that McCaffrey remains one of my favourite authors, but I can see where SCG is coming from and I have not yet read 'Bored ...'
Can I add Raymond E. Feist on the fantasy side and (risking loads of flame and scorn) dare I mention Clancy on the current issue front - the first of these would certainly lend itself to a scenario - it probably already has ...
Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Scouse Gits]

SG{3}
I have to admit that my current favourite is Terry Pratchett probably because I've read little else for about a year and a half
I have just discovered Jon Courntney Grimwood, a very good if fairly heavy read would reccommend him to any one! And his bitter and twisted version of the future would be an enjoyable scenario!

[Miner]

quote: I have to admit that my current favourite is Terry Pratchett probably because I've read little else for about a year and a half

Well said that civer.

I think I ought to add any of Stephen Baxters Xeelee Sequence is a damn good read. Should inspire any civer to think long term strategy...

[tonic]

For an insight into the rise and fall of civilisations, a pattern that's been repeated since recorded times, I'd recommend an old classic:

A Study of History by Arnold Toynbee

I only have the abridged illustrated edition (1972) co-authored with Jane Caplan but I reckon that makes a useful introduction. At a time when academic historians have taken to the analysis of minutiae, it is refreshing to get the whole picture.

[MacUser]

quote: Originally posted by tonic on 08-26-2000 06:08 AM For an insight into the rise and fall of civilisations, a pattern that's been repeated since recorded times, I'd recommend an old classic: A Study of History by Arnold Toynbee I only have the abridged illustrated edition (1972) co-authored with Jane Caplan but I reckon that makes a useful introduction. At a time when academic historians have taken to the analysis of minutiae, it is refreshing to get the whole picture.

Okay, I'm ashamed, I've owned this book since the mid-eighties and have never read it! I think I'll start, since the only think I've been reading lately are monographs on atomic absorption spectroscopy and ACS Forum threads!


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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese

[DarkCloud]

Good reading-

Xanth Series by Piers Anthony

Any Turtledove alternate history book; notably "The Guns of the South"

Stainless steel rat books by Harry Harrison or Stars and Stripes forever, a funny look at the Civil war with Britain declaring war on everyone and the US taking over Canada.

Robert Asprin's "Myth" series

Any Alternate history

-Well that's about all the good reading that this -civ fan likes.

[Novi Nomad]

St Leo,

What is the sequel to Catch 22? I read this several years ago, and didn't realize that Heller made a sequel...

[Sten Sture]

quote: Originally posted by tonic on 08-26-2000 06:08 AM A Study of History by Arnold Toynbee I only have the abridged illustrated edition...

Isn't the unabridged edition 20+ volumes?? I think MacUsers should have to read that one and report back to us!

[DarkCloud]

The Day of the Triffids film was pretty laughable especially when
the plants are being electrocuted by the fence (you can see the
humans in plant suits rustling around trying to act scary!)

The Dragonriders of Pern are all technically the same story and thus
boring. If you have read one you have read them all.

The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy is good in the first two books
but become increasingly more incoherent as the series progresses and
thus they become unreadable.

[Hueij]

quote: Originally posted by Novi Nomad on 08-28-2000 10:47 AM St Leo, What is the sequel to Catch 22? I read this several years ago, and didn't realize that Heller made a sequel...

IIRC it's called Nothing Happened. It's not as hilarious (and tragic) as Catch 22 tho still a good read.

[Case]

Anything by Neal Stephenson is good. They've all got plenty of comedy, violence and computer programming. What more could you ask for out of a book

[MacUser]

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 08-28-2000 01:24 PM Isn't the unabridged edition 20+ volumes?? I think MacUsers should have to read that one and report back to us!

!!!

MRS. MacUser could finish 20 volumes, but me.....
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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese
[This message has been edited by MacUser (edited August 29, 2000).]

[SCG]

well, gee, I would have thought Lews Therin here would have bumped up this thread and recommended Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series

well, I might as well do that. After all, I seem to remember seeing a map in the archives for randland (or WoT)

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T(one time)PB Mynal Silvar
Gaidin to Celes Sedai of the Green Ajah

(for anyone who may have mudded/played on TCS)

[Caligastia]

Civilization players should check out The Urantia Book,
It has a complete history of life and civilization
on this planet. It is extremely long(2000+pages)
and claims to be authored by celestial beings.
You can search the text at www.urantia.org

[Sten Sture]

quote: Originally posted by Fergus Horkan on 09-05-2000 12:22 PM A great read for Civers, IMHO, is "Guns, Germs and Steel", by Jared DIamond, which answers the question "How was Cortez able to conquer the Aztecs with 50 men" and poses, and answers "Why didnt the Aztecs land in Spain with 50 men, and conquer them first". Of course, we all know the answers to those, but it is a good read.

I am reading this now on the recommendations of pchang and mindseye from an Off-topic thread and it is excellent.

[Laertes]

The "sequel" to Catch-22 is "Closing Time". It is not exactly a sequel - Yossarian and a minority of other characters, and the majority of YoYo's neuroses, are retained for a story/fantasy set 50 years after the war.

I think Hueij might have got confused with another Heller book, "Something Happened", which was his second novel, I believe, and an excellent book in its own right, but not a sequel.

Heller was once challenged that he had never again written anything as good as Catch-22. He replied "Neither did anyone else".

A great read for Civers, IMHO, is "Guns, Germs and Steel", by Jared DIamond, which answers the question "How was Cortez able to conquer the Aztecs with 50 men" and poses, and answers "Why didnt the Aztecs land in Spain with 50 men, and conquer them first". Of course, we all know the answers to those, but it is a good read.

[cavebear]

Late entry to a thread I had overlooked.

Yes, "Bored of the Rings" is hillarious. I read it when it first came out, and I dissolved into tears of laughter over the Ballhog bit. But you *have* to have read the LOTR for any of it to make sense since it is a parody.

Asprin's "MYTH" series is also superb spoof material of the whole genre, and I fully recommend it.

Along that same line, Civer's might enjoy the "Heroes in Hell" series, since it is much like a Civ game; people from all times jumbled together in Machiavellian chaos of diplomacy and warfare. Romans vs French vs Viet Cong vs etc.

"Guns, Germs, and Steel" is the best book for understanding true historical causality that I have ever read. In a true Civ nightmare, it shows how geography rules!

[debeest]

I cannot even express how emphatically I agree with the recommendation of Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel. I finished it a month ago, and I spent the entire book constantly reflecting on how phenomenally accurate a simulation Civ2 is of the processes described therein. The only thing Civ2 lacks is ecological differences reflective of the real world's climate and biota. And the book also contains a wealth of fascinating information that I, a reasonably well read fella, had never heard of (though many war-gamers may be much more familiar with some of it).

[kcbob]

Bored of the Rings was terrific. But let's not forget the grand daddy of them all, Lord of The Rings.

And while these are not necessarily Civ2 related, the best series of books, IMHO, are the Tom Clancy books that follow Jack Ryan/John Clark and those by James Clavell.

Actually, I suppose Clavell's books could be Civ2 related. They deal with life in Japan, China/Hong Kong, and Persia. Okay, it's really Iran but you get the idea. But could someone tell me if I heard correctly? Did he pass away recently?

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Simpson II]

For a Civish title, I firmly recommend The Player of Games by Iain M. Banks. According to the rumour mill, the game, Azad, which the book is set around is based on the authors addiction to Civ II!
In fact I recommend all of Bank's books, with or without the M. With means sci-fi, without means conventional literature. Just don't start with The Wasp Factory (his first book - interesting in it's way, but this is the one they study on english courses. Always a bad sign )

The Hitchhiker books are great, but it probably needs a physicist to get the last 2. His take on quantum mechanics and the many-worlds theory is excellent reading - but perhaps some people don't enjoy QM too much.. lol..
[This message has been edited by Simpson II (edited September 08, 2000).]

[Laertes]

quote: Originally posted by kcbob on 09-08-2000 08:30 AM [ And while these are not necessarily Civ2 related, the best series of books, IMHO, are the Tom Clancy books that follow Jack Ryan/John Clark and those by James Clavell. Actually, I suppose Clavell's books could be Civ2 related. They deal with life in Japan, China/Hong Kong, and Persia. Okay, it's really Iran but you get the idea. But could someone tell me if I heard correctly? Did he pass away recently?

Yes, he died in roughly the last 2 years, I forget exactly when.