New Scenario - Page 2

Soundwave · April 3, 2002, 02:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott F
I'll play.

*calls Germany*

And is it really, really too much to ask for you people to give credit to the people you copied units, icons, flags, and such from?

Hmmmm... flags?? I do those.. except Germany... Sorry... see how they are all the same shape..

Scott F · April 3, 2002, 04:19

Let's see...

Where to begin...

In cities.bmp, I drew the Russian flag, the Austrian flag, the German flag, and the two airport icons. I know that the three flags are mine because they are the same as the ones in El Awrence's European Crisis scenario, and I drew those for him. The airport icons are the same as those in my Turtledove's Great War scenario.

In the icons.bmp file, I drew the French flag icon, the Eiffel Tower with French flag background icon, the propaganda (WAR!!) icon, the icon with the Austrian and German flags, and the chemistry icon with the German war ensign in the background.

In the units.bmp file, I drew the German war ensign shield, the Austro-Hungarian shield, the ocean liner, the cruiser, the battleship, the heavy artillery, the American infantry unit, the Stormtrooper unit, and the airship unit (which is actually the only one properly credited). Also, I think that the WW1 French infantry is one that I modified from Alex and the WW1 Italian infantry was one that you gave a new hat.

I hate to make this sound anal, but I've only made one (well, two) scenarios, but have made a lot of units, particularly from this period. And you didn't credit me, Nemo, Alex, DarthVeda, or practically anyone else whose units you used.

Henrik · April 3, 2002, 04:49

Soundwave, take a look at the readme for the scenario which you ripped most of the stuff in this from

, that's what you need to have in yours.

(actually I am really wondering wether this can be considered as an individual scenario or an AoW "update" or "mod", in fact one would think that you'd get the original authors permission before doing this...)

Soundwave · April 3, 2002, 06:16

WHHooaa Nelly!

The Flags are mine i did them? You even check, they aren't the same of yours.... What would you like to do ban me from this as well? Sorry, i thought if you post units, people can use them, units i post, i dont care what people do with them, i did it to be used... airport in the icons, i modified i dont know who did it... Sorry about my typing its a bit sloppy as some of my keys stick, or dont type.

If you like, i can update the whole scenario or start all over?

Well i better make sure all other scenario's dont even look like anyothers, which by the way is very hard.

But oh well, what do you prefer

*waits for Case to say something?*

BTW yes cyrion i agree i playtested it and the infantry and conscripts are to strong... (infantry i was gonna call division but that would be silly SRiech, and infantry sounded alright, other the adv. infantry) i think infantry with ingore city walls would be good.

All aircraft and tanks, work well... i think ship power will be brought down... and stromtroopers, mountain troops, and the italian struv v/1 rules, although not cheap and the KV-1 its well, the 'german destroyer'

Neways... keep putting in your comments, just a thought i wonder if people get scared away because they have to make good scenarios, i thought it would be brillant after i played roman empire 1,2,3 in civfantics.

Other than that, SORRY scott i didn't know, i got the units off either the civfantics, or apolyton graphics showcases.... But i will put a BIG Thank you for you things... sorry for not asking permission, i did not know... sorry.

Case · April 3, 2002, 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Soundwave
*waits for Case to say something?*

..Since you invited me

Soundwave, are you refering to the unit shields in units.bmp or the flags in cities.bmp? Either way, you seem to be claiming Scott's work as your own.

Quote:

Originally posted by Soundwave Hmmmm... flags?? I do those.. except Germany... Sorry... see how they are all the same shape..

On the attached image the top row of flags is from Soundwave's scenario, and the bottom row is from 'Blood and Iron'

On close inspection, Soundwave's Austrian flag is a slightly different shape to Scotts.
However, this is simply because an extra column of pixels has been added to the right side of the flag. When you remove this column the flag is exactly the same as Scott's.

In addition, the German and Russian flags used by Soundwave are exactly the same as Scott's, right down to the last pixel.

If Soundwave was refering to the unit shields, then he's also exaggerating as at least some of the shields (including the Austrian, German and Russians ones) have previously appeared in 'European Crisis' and/or Scott's 'Great War' scenario

Soundwave, people generally don't mind their work being used in other people's scenarios (personally I find it to be rather good for my ego

), but it's a bit much to start claiming other peoples work as your own.

DarthVeda · April 3, 2002, 20:09

I don't mind having units used, it's just considered "un-kosher" to erase the ID tags from the unit's transparency backgrounds. I've noticed that you've removed marks from my Akagi carrier and My/Nemo's Me-109. Next time you edit unit graphics, just consider that the authors put the tags there for a reason...

I mean even on my heavily (to the point of not even looking the same) modified Alex Mor units I put his trademark since they are based, at least in part, on body parts or silloeuttes of his units.

ravagon · April 3, 2002, 20:42

Quote:

Originally posted by DarthVeda
I don't mind having units used, it's just considered "un-kosher" to erase the ID tags from the unit's transparency backgrounds. I've noticed that you've removed marks from my Akagi carrier and My/Nemo's Me-109. Next time you edit unit graphics, just consider that the authors put the tags there for a reason...

Problem with that though is that the FW editor, which I often use for building graphics files (and only graphics files

) doesn't import tags stamped in the background.
Found that out when I tried to bulk import a lot of Alex's units - couldn't open them otherwise - his tags were completely removed ... (Sorry Alex).

Soundwave · April 3, 2002, 21:00

Sorry, but with my editor, it doesn't take the names with it, when i was playing the game and then cam e back to the units its was like 3/4 pink and the 1/4 purple, i didn't mean to do it on purpose... with the flags, sorry even if they are the same.

Sorry, but Scott, i'll put yours and my name down... AND thank you very much for the help.. i will credit you alot!!!

(free publicy)

Case · April 3, 2002, 21:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Soundwave
with the flags, sorry i didn't copy them (except austria, i must have but i dont know where from?), i did the others myself.. sorry even if they are the same.

Soundwave, please stop insulting our intelligence. The Russian and German flags I posted are the same right down to the last pixel.

If you zoom in you'll notice that even the shading in the middle of the flags is identical.

DV: As Ravagon and Soundwave said, the Civ units editor strips name tags off. To make up for this I generally add a typed note on the units.bmp file directing people to the full list of credits in the readme.

techumseh · April 3, 2002, 22:26

Just like the old days!

Case · April 4, 2002, 03:21

Nice edit Soundwave

I guess that means that you've dropped your claim on the flags in question?

Soundwave · April 4, 2002, 03:42

Cyrion, Shaka Naldur, techumseh would you like to join in on a Pbem of this? Mostly everything is on equal terms and the best thing is is a fast moving game... techs dont take that long!

techumseh · April 4, 2002, 04:13

Thanks anyway.

Cyrion · April 4, 2002, 04:21

Soundwave: if you see this PBEM as being at the same time a game AND a way to kind of "debug" the rules, balance units, etc, you can count me in!!

And I wouldn't mind taking the italian Empire...

Shaka Naldur · April 4, 2002, 16:31

no thanks
i would like to but i don´t have time for pbems

Questerr · April 4, 2002, 17:59

Guys, for some reason, whenever I try and download a file of these forums, it never works. I have Winzip, but the attachments never turn into a Zip file. So, although there are very good scenarios on this site, I cannot download them. (I use Real Download)

Any help would be appreciated.

The ANZAC · April 4, 2002, 18:06

sometimes the forum amkes everything "untitled" so when you download, make sure you put ".zip" at the end.

Soundwave · April 4, 2002, 21:30

Well Cyrion about the ingore city walls for intantry i cant do that, because the 'city walls' are called trench system... infantry cannot avoid that.. i'll fix it!

ravagon · April 5, 2002, 02:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Questerr
Guys, for some reason, whenever I try and download a file of these forums, it never works. I have Winzip, but the attachments never turn into a Zip file. So, although there are very good scenarios on this site, I cannot download them. (I use Real Download)

Any help would be appreciated.

You are talking about files which show up as attachments with a .zip extension I take it...
I use Go!zilla most of the time but when downloading files from this site it generally doesn't trigger automatically (something in the VBB script?) so I end up with the "save to desktop" prompt. That has occasionally resulted in a corrupt download but in most cases files added as an attachment can be "leeched" as a last resort.

Case · April 5, 2002, 03:19

Here's some more sugestions:

1. You really need to get rid of the border posts on the German/Austrian frontier. They prevent any possible hostilities developing between Germany and Austria and thereby rule out a potentially interesting area of the game. As none of the other nations is completly blocked off by border posts this is particularly wierd.

I recomend that you replace the border post's around the playable nations (Germany, Austria and Italy) with fortified units belonging to this nation

Also, what's the point of making Spain impossible to invade? All the other 'neutral' nations are relativly open to conquest.

2. I sugest that you increase the size of Russian cities, and especially Kiev and Nizhny Novogrod.

3. The coastal battery unit seems to serve no real purpose. As they can't move they're no threat to passing shiping, and players have no reason to ever attack them.

4. Constantinople is on the wrong side of the Bosporus

5. The French Atlantic fleet should be bigger

6. Britain and France need heaps more mines. As things currently stand, they're basically agricultural nations, especially in contrast with Germany (which is, if anything, overdeveloped)

7. Tubruk is missplaced - it should be much further to the east

8. Your choice of British cities is somewhat eccentric. For example, why did you choose the town of Hastings over the vastly more important city of Dover?

Cyrion · April 5, 2002, 04:37

Sounwave, I've been playing a few turns (as Italy) yesterday evening (at the recommended difficulty level) and looking a bit further at the rules.

I was playing with the first set of rules, so a few things might have change in the newest ones, but here you'll get my feedback anyway...

1. At the first turn, 2-3 italian cities were in disorder, which is something I don't really like!

I think there was even a conscript a city was unable to support (not sure, though...)

2. As I told you, I would prefer that the submarine weren't ready at the start of the scenario and that for 2 reasons: first I'm not sure there were really extensively used at the turn of the century, and second because it would be nicer (IMHO) to get them via tech research (I think there are sub techs to be researched, "Sub torpedo" or something...).

3. The Ocean Liner has the "can see submarines" flag: not really realistic...

4. The Coastal Artillery, with it's defense of 10, is GREAT (and needed!) against naval attacks! BUT the problem is it's just as great against ANY attack!! But I can't find a solution to this problem... Ideas, anybody ???

5. About the marines: the graphic is REALLY nice!!! The only problem is, there is no way to see whom they belong to, except clicking on it!! (Am I wrong on that??). And we have the same problem with Shock Troops (And Americans, if different countries can build them!)!!

6. Marines again: I regret that we have the ability to build them from the start; I would prefer the nations to have a few at their disposal from the start, but then to get some techs to be allowed to build any more!! But hey, that's just my opinion!!!

7. The units move REALLY fast (I recognize Sounwave hand there: he does like the game to go fast

); the Mountain Troops disturb me (and not because they look so "Hungarian"...

) : move 3 (4 in the original rules, which was really BAD!!) and "all as road": they are nearly unstoppable!!! I would prefer move 2, that would be really enough!!!

8. Shock Troops and Mountain Troops seem a bit "redundant" from their respective ability: I would recommend to keep only one of them (and so free a slot!) OR to let each country build only 1 of the 2 !!

9. And last: there are a bit too many units at the players dispositon at the first turn for my taste, but that's even more a personal opinion than all the other remarks: I prefer a quiet first turn, just to assess the situation. But I know that a lot of you wouldn't agree with that!!!

So, that's pretty much all for now (should be enough for one post...), do what you want with my remarks!!

BTW: if I took the time to "criticize" so in depth, it's because I like your scen !!!

Cyrion · April 5, 2002, 05:26

Something I forgot: I think the # of turns to mine hills is 1!!! A bit short, no???

Thoddy · April 5, 2002, 06:15

Quote:

4. The Coastal Artillery, with it's defense of 10, is GREAT (and needed!) against naval attacks! BUT the problem is it's just as great against ANY attack!! But I can't find a solution to this problem... Ideas, anybody ???

should naval attacks be allowed or not.
If not some solutions:
Sub flag: prevents ships from attacking cities
Tot impassable terrain: all landterrain get the impassable Flag, in this way any ship cannot attack units on landsquares if the override impassable Terrain flag is not set
all ships get weaker attack/def stats. To prevent them from becoming easy targets for air units Aegis flag should set.

Or use shells (marines)

Soundwave · April 5, 2002, 15:34

I am listening, i'm just taking everything in... there will most proably be a verision 2... the thing with Germany and Austria will not change... but everything i'm considering... e.g taking away the coastal art and just give them artillarys or something in the darnelles...

to be continued

(btw i'm playtesting too hehe, Austria/Italy/and Germany so far.. its fun)

Soundwave · April 6, 2002, 15:51

All the new files like a verision 2 is in History (pre-ww1 europe) PBEM thread...

Soundwave · April 6, 2002, 20:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Case
What changes have you made? Did you get rid of the border posts on the Austrian border? (which IMO will make Austria near unplayable in a PBEM [they'll be invunerable to attack, yet unable to send expiditionary forces out])

No the Austrian Border between Germany and Austria will stay, but Austria can get attacked two ways from Germany, the ones on the carpathain mountians have been removed, as well as spain can be invaded, e.g. secret: take over madrid and barcelona and cadiz and the 'spanish' border posts go away.

Each civ has a special unit e.g Stromtrooper is only German, Anzac's is only British (ironic Anzac?)

No Coastal Unit and No Stuka, there is a bomber, so thats enough.

Infantry and Conscript rules have been updated, same with the rules.

Britian and France have been industrialized... Italy and all nations, except the Ottoman Empire experience disorder, the units at the start have not been changed.

Soundwave · April 6, 2002, 21:02

Sound File 1 (update)

Soundwave · April 6, 2002, 21:04

Sound File 2 (update)

Soundwave · April 6, 2002, 21:07

Sound File 3 (update)

Soundwave · April 7, 2002, 04:00

I forgot to add the new rules and mpevents, sorry guys, i feel really bad....

Here they are: