Diplomat/Spy

[colossus]

The diplomatic units in civ2 can do the following things:
1.)Bribe unit
2.)Bribe city
3.)Establish embassy
4.)Steal tech
5.)Investigate city
6.)Poison city
7.)Sabotage

Because it never fails any mission except 7, it becomes excessively powerful and creates ridiculous strategies, such as bribing the world in fundamentalism. Curtailing the power of the unit is desired. I proposed the following change:

2.)Bribe city
Dip/spy can only bribe cities in disorder, or cities previously belong to you, and the rate of sucess is less than 100%

4.)Steal tech
The rate of sucess should be 50% only. Once failed, the city cannot be targeted for 2nd round of espionage.

6.)Poison city
The rate of sucess should be 50% only. A city can only be poisoned once per turn.

7.)Sabotage
The rate of sucess should be 50% only. A city can only be sabotaged once per turn.

New function
8.)Steal map
Dip/spy can attempt to steal map from other civ. One attempt per city only.
The rate of success should be 50%

[Tiberius]

If I know that my spy has only 50% to accomplish a mission, I will save before every mission and then reload and reload and reload again, until the spy will succed (of course, if I were an AI, I wouldn't do that ).
I don't think that this is the best way to balance the power of a spy. IMHO there must exist better solutions.

quote: Dip/spy can only bribe cities in disorder, or cities previously belong to you

I like this, but in addition I think other civs attitude towars you should also play a role in bribing a city (I mean if you are powerful, rich, you never started a war and never lost a war and by comparison the foreign city was conquered or lives under permanent threat, or the citizens are poor and generally live under undesirable conditions, then the chance that the foreign city will join your civ should be higher).

[Bubba]

Despite its faults, three things done in CTP II (& perhaps I) which were interesting include:

1) Make any action by a spy cost gold;

2) Make every action a probability (less than 50%). I think that this varied on outside factors (government, regard, whether or not spy was in city 'attacked' etc.)

3) Bribing a city (even with a low possiblity), only made the city form its own civilization rather than joining yours.

Perhaps these could be implemented?

Colossue you did not cover all of your subject

Author Topic: Diplomat/Spy

colossus
Chieftain
Hong Kong
Nov 1999 posted February 28, 2001 03:55

The diplomatic units in civ2 can do the following things:

1.)Bribe unit
How about using the SMAC method? I think it 50 to 70% if you don't want your spy caught or the 100% and your spy is caught.

2.)Bribe city
I like your answer.

3.)Establish embassy
No change

4.)Steal tech
This one is tough because of what has happen in the US since the late 40s. The Russian were able to get Nuclear secrets plus alot of other information from the US. How about 50% to 75% suscess rate with 50% change of being caught and then waite 5 turns before you try again? or the 100% suscess and is caught 100% of the time.

5.)Investigate city
This one petty hard to stop, even in the real world.

6.)Poison city
In this day and age a lot easier then we might want to relize. How about Your answer plus 100% if the spy is caught.

7.)Sabotage
How about this 50% 50% chance of suscess and geting caught, if the spy want 100% suscess he is caught.

New function
8.)Steal map
Dip/spy can attempt to steal map from other civ. One attempt per city only.
The rate of success should be 50%

I like this one.

Colossus since you started this subject why not send this to Firaxis for a question and maybe they will buy it and used it.



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[colossus]

quote: Originally posted by Bubba on 02-28-2001 11:23 AM Despite its faults, three things done in CTP II (& perhaps I) which were interesting include: 1) Make any action by a spy cost gold; 2) Make every action a probability (less than 50%). I think that this varied on outside factors (government, regard, whether or not spy was in city 'attacked' etc.) 3) Bribing a city (even with a low possiblity), only made the city form its own civilization rather than joining yours. Perhaps these could be implemented?

I like your points, Bubba, especially, dip action costs gold.

And I want to add more restriction about bribing units:
-the action of bribing unit, like a combat action, costs 1 movement point, in addition to the MP spent for moving to the bribed unit.
-certain units are invulnerable to bribe: all air, naval units and dip/spy. Dip/spy cannot be bribed because they are usually the most loyal units of a civ. Air and naval officers can be bribed, but not the equipment, and the bribing of officers is represented by sabotage already.