Cruise Missiles Hanging in Mid-Air!

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

Just what the subject line indicates. I think it's just a one-time glitch, but the AI Egyptians (immediate successors to the destroyed Viking Empire) somehow managed to keep three cruise missiles hanging in mid-air next to one of my conquered Viking cities. I was always under the impression that they could not pass from turn to turn in mid-air.

Anyway, I got ticked off and destroyed them via the cheat menu. This is the only time I've seen it happen, although I recently made the missiles a bit cheaper (40 shields vs. 50 shields) so the AI would use them against land units and lesser ocean vessels. That couldn't have precipiated this bug, could it?

CYBERAmazon

[finbar]

It's probably just yet another of the AI's in-built advantages. Amongst other things, their bombers can hang in the air for turns without needing to return to a city.

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#33984591

[Christantine The Great]

Bombers tend to be able to fly great distances without refueling, too. I was playing a game where the Sioux had a city in Italy but were able to have bombers constantly in the air on the east side of the Caspian Sea with no local airfields.

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The Viking Archives
[This message has been edited by Christantine The Great (edited October 16, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

So the AI cheats - we are surprised!
Roll on Civ3
:
_________________
the Scouse Gits in Concert

[finbar]

You think the AI won't cheat in Civ 3? You pair of dreamers, you.

The Scouse Gits in Concert? Unplugged, more likely.

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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Horse & Hydey Wrangler
Trust Peter Noone? Why?
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Smash]

You can do it also if you have MGE.Press w one move before last,then command+n when you are finished.Works for all air or missile units.Keeps triremes from sinking also.Just move 2 squres though.

[Bohlen]

Well, I guess the AI can cheat with cruise missles. Now, can we somehow get the AI to use them effectively? Did lowering the cost enable the AI to actually use missles on cities and land units?

[The Capo]

Not that I doubt the AI "Cheats", but I see a discrepency in Amazon's comments.

He/she says that the Egyptians took over for the destroyed Vikings, which is impossible unless you have edited Rules.txt to make the Vikings Yellow or the Egyptians Blue.

So I guess what I am saying is he either lied about that, which means that his whole statement is a fabrication, or he misunderstood the situation.

Why he would lie I don't know, so I think he probably just thought wrong about Egypt arising from the Viking defeat.

[Simpson II]

I'm sure CYBERAmazon is telling the truth, Capo. I've seen AI cruise missiles hanging in the air quite a few times. It happens when it sends them to attack something, but they're unable to enter the square; just stack a bomber with a battleship off the AI's coast for a few turns and see how many missiles you collect!

The city wasn't empty by any chance, CYBERAmazon? That would explain it.

[Mark von Wagner]

The AI will use missiles against any sufficiently strong unit, regardless of whether the missiles have a reasonable chance of winning or not. Check out the Fantastic Worlds Mars scenario for an example of this: place an LMO Troopers on a mountain near an AI-controlled city and watch it get hit with thousands of missiles (with no damage done!)

[Gatekeeper]

quote: Originally posted by The Capo on 10-16-2000 10:29 AM Not that I doubt the AI "Cheats", but I see a discrepency in Amazon's comments. He/she says that the Egyptians took over for the destroyed Vikings, which is impossible unless you have edited Rules.txt to make the Vikings Yellow or the Egyptians Blue. So I guess what I am saying is he either lied about that, which means that his whole statement is a fabrication, or he misunderstood the situation. Why he would lie I don't know, so I think he probably just thought wrong about Egypt arising from the Viking defeat.

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The Capo:

Hmm ... a discrepancy? Fibbing? Now why in God's name would I do something like that over a computer game? Allow me to explain what happened, step-by-step, so you can see that my outcome is logical ... for a civil war.

1. I am playing the Sioux.
2. I attacked Trondheim and occupied it.
3. The Viking Empire, being vast, was torn asunder by civil war.
4. From this war emerges the surviving Vikings and the Egyptians, who have "won" around half the Viking cities.
5. I attack the new Viking capital, Roskilde, and occupy it. Again, civil war.
6. From this split emerges the Vikings with six cities and the Carthaginians with the remaining cities.
7. I finish the Vikings off, and am now at peace with everyone while I rebuild and repair my invasion forces. This time, I plan to target the Zulu Empire. They've got around 230 combat divisions and should be a worthy challenge — for two or three turns of combat . Provided they don't blast my convoys with too many missiles.

So there you are, Capo. I was describing a civil war the first time around. One need not to edit the rules.txt file to get one of those. Is it a bit clearer now?

CYBERAmazon

[Gatekeeper]

quote: Originally posted by Bohlen on 10-16-2000 08:38 AM Well, I guess the AI can cheat with cruise missles. Now, can we somehow get the AI to use them effectively? Did lowering the cost enable the AI to actually use missles on cities and land units?

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Bohlen:

Yeppers, it worked! I've had the AI use cruise missiles against myself and other AI civilizations — and not just battleships and AEGIS cruisers this time.

It has actually struck cities with the missiles, in addition to land units such as armor, elite corps (one of my customized units w/attack power of a howitzer, one movement point [all terrain], and the defense of a musketeers with the hit points of a battleship) and lesser ships like transports and cruisers. I think the AI has also hit other units that have been stacked and/or in fortresses.

So, yes, it is using missiles more realistically. Kick butt!

CYBERAmazon

[Scouse Gits]

That is good news CYBERAmazon - I think I shall follow your example.
Thanks for the update

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

[Gatekeeper]

quote: Originally posted by Mark von Wagner on 10-16-2000 04:59 PM The AI will use missiles against any sufficiently strong unit, regardless of whether the missiles have a reasonable chance of winning or not. Check out the Fantastic Worlds Mars scenario for an example of this: place an LMO Troopers on a mountain near an AI-controlled city and watch it get hit with thousands of missiles (with no damage done!)

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MvW:

Prior to lowering the cost of the missiles from 50 to 40 shields, the AI *never* used them against anything other than battleships and AEGIS cruisers (and the occasional transport and cruiser). Oftentimes, it would store up to a dozen missiles in each of its cities, not using them. Now, it averages keeping two to four missiles in each city, as it uses the rest to wreak havoc on nations it's at war with.

CYBERAmazon

[Gatekeeper]

Scouse Gits:

You're welcome . As for that thing with hanging cruise missiles, I've come to think it was nothing more than a one-turn glitch (after all, it did happen during a civil war).

Even using specific views of AI civilizations, I haven't seen hanging cruise missiles. Sure, I'll see the occasional bombers (stealth, too) and fighters hanging in mid-air, but no cruise missiles.

CYBERAmazon

[Gatekeeper]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 10-16-2000 02:21 AM You can do it also if you have MGE.Press w one move before last,then command+n when you are finished.Works for all air or missile units.Keeps triremes from sinking also.Just move 2 squres though.

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Smash:

Thanks for the tip. I don't want to make a fairly easy job (most of the time) any easier, though .

CYBERAmazon

[Bohlen]

CYBERAmazon:

I'm glad you got to clear things up for The Capo. He sounds a little paranoid.

Wow! It's amazing to me how lowering the cost of cruise missiles by 10 shields will produce drastically different results. I would have thought that no matter how cheap missiles are, that the AI is programmed to attack only naval units with them, since that's all it does under normal cost. I guess that only goes to show what can happen when you make a small change to rules.txt. If the AI would use cruise missiles as regularly on cities as it does nukes, the AI could be pretty dangerous at times in modern era warfare.

[Gatekeeper]

Simpson II:

I apologize for not seeing your question earlier. Regarding it, the city was defended by my conquering howitzer divisions (two, I think).

CYBERAmazon

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Bohlen:

I haven't been able to detect a pattern on missile vs. city usage yet, other than the fact that it seems to hit cities with ships and/or armor harbored in them more frequently than other targets.

Once or twice, it has struck my cities that are defended by SAM missile batteries and SDI Defenses. Suffice to say, the AI actually seems to avoid those cities w/missiles after discovering their defense networks. A bit of intelligence, perhaps?

CYBERAmazon

[Bohlen]

quote: Originally posted by CYBERAmazon on 10-17-2000 02:33 PM Once or twice, it has struck my cities that are defended by SAM missile batteries and SDI Defenses. Suffice to say, the AI actually seems to avoid those cities w/missiles after discovering their defense networks. A bit of intelligence, perhaps? CYBERAmazon

The same can be said when the AI uses nukes...well, sort of. The AI will not drop a nuke on a city that has an SDI defense, but will continually try to nuke a city that does not have its own SDI, but is still protected by an SDI located in a city that is up to 3 squares away. Here, the AI knows which cities have SDIs and which do not. It sounds like in your situation, the AI has to "give it a try" with the missiles first in order to learn about which cities have SAMs and SDIs.

I'll have to give this a try in one of my upcoming games and see if my results match yours.

Keep up the good work! Very interesting stuff.

[debeest]

Two things:

1) civilopedia notwithstanding, cruise missiles normally cost 60 shields, not 50, right? and

2) CYBERAmazon, I assure you that if you build a battleship and hover a bomber over it, you will often find the stack surrounded by a cloud of eager, panting, enemy cruise missiles, wondering why they couldn't bite it and how they're gonna get home. I've assumed that it was a glitch, but it occurs to me that maybe the AI knows about the "wait" trick and actually CHEATS INTELLIGENTLY the way the human player can!

[Gatekeeper]

quote: Originally posted by debeest on 10-17-2000 11:00 PM Two things: 1) civilopedia notwithstanding, cruise missiles normally cost 60 shields, not 50, right? and 2) CYBERAmazon, I assure you that if you build a battleship and hover a bomber over it, you will often find the stack surrounded by a cloud of eager, panting, enemy cruise missiles, wondering why they couldn't bite it and how they're gonna get home. I've assumed that it was a glitch, but it occurs to me that maybe the AI knows about the "wait" trick and actually CHEATS INTELLIGENTLY the way the human player can!

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debeest:

Regarding part one of your question, nope. In my version of Civ II (Macintosh release), the cruise missiles usually cost 50 shields. I lowered it to 40 after reading about something similar Smash (least I think it was him) did with identical results. If anything, he deserves most of the credit for this trick, as he was the one who enlightened me to its existence. Since then, we've both been lab rats .

As for the second half of your question, I've *never* observed what you've seen. Perhaps it's something they fixed when porting it to the Macintosh. The most I've ever found is usually an AI sub carrying a single cruise missile. That, I think, acts as a mobile base for the AI, and the single cruise missile is some sort of loci point where the AI can bring in however many others it thinks it needs to do a given job (like making my life hell with 36-missile en masse strikes).

CYBERAmazon