History PBEM - Page 11

Cyrion · June 7, 2002, 10:50

After a long conference with the Russian Ambassador, Vittorio Emmanuele, a bit cooler than before, changed his mind and decided that Italy, Craddle of the European civilization

, was indeed needed in the League and so would assume its responsabilities!!

So the Italian Republic will stay in the League and try to contribute to make it a fair and efficient tool for Peace and Freedom...

And as the Italian vote isn't needed anyway

, I'll just congratulate the new SG!!!

Scott F · June 7, 2002, 20:24

I really don't see what the problem is. I don't see how I could get 59 units in a turn though. It might have happened when the files were changed over one of those times.

If it's that much of a problem, I can always disband some military units to a number deemed "fair" by people outside of sas (who has a very vested game interest in a weak Germany).

Scott F · June 7, 2002, 20:34

Also, does anyone know where I can find a copy of the latest Civ2MGE patch? I just installed Windows XP and lost all of my installed software in the process through the evils of Microsoft (fortunately not my graphic files or work-in progress scenarios though, I have backups of those) and am trying to get everything back together again.

Soundwave · June 7, 2002, 21:39

Hmm, that doesn't settle it, but oh well, i just wanna add my 2 cents in, also can cyrion please look at pms.

Right... cheating... forget it, can we get on with it!

Scott i trust you... not many people are that forgiving (i know) but some people see sense. So i would like you to continue, but i think i would like to put the vote that you will have to disband some units.

The ANZAC · June 7, 2002, 22:21

Cyrion: the vote of Italy is not ignored, just the only other opponent to myself resigned, leaving no other candidates and insuring my victory.

So no conspiracy against you.

Everyone: I want this game to continue. I don't think Scott has cheated due to character and the fact that he is too smart for something like that.
Though, having an outside source check is OK by me.

sas · June 8, 2002, 04:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott F
I really don't see what the problem is. I don't see how I could get 59 units in a turn though. It might have happened when the files were changed over one of those times.

If it's that much of a problem, I can always disband some military units to a number deemed "fair" by people outside of sas (who has a very vested game interest in a weak Germany).

As much as would like to believe Scott F and get the game going again, i simply can't put this down to an "error" in the game or "freak of nature".

The fact is if you look at the increase in the number of units, there is no way anyone can manage that kind of growth. I challenge anyone attemting to reach 200 units playing as the germans without selling every improvement you got in the same timeframe that Scott made it. And Scott got 254 units.

At the same time, Germany have obviously built factories and steelmills in allmost every city. Just take a look at the goods output he's got.

So my question remains, how is this possible ?

I cant and wont continue this scenario without this matter being solved. I wont spend hours on a game that is not played fairly by one of the players, if that is the fact in this game.

-Sas-

Darius871 · June 8, 2002, 04:31

I just say let's get a neutral person to check the files and get it over with. Case, you seem to be reading this thread, could you take ten minutes and do it? Or anyone else that's reading?

Jacobite1688 · June 8, 2002, 12:03

I agree, let's get on with it.

The ANZAC · June 8, 2002, 16:49

Yes, have a neutral observer check the save's unit and money levels and report. Period.

Cyrion · June 9, 2002, 14:06

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
Cyrion: the vote of Italy is not ignored, just the only other opponent to myself resigned, leaving no other candidates and insuring my victory.

So no conspiracy against you.

Everyone: I want this game to continue. I don't think Scott has cheated due to character and the fact that he is too smart for something like that.
Though, having an outside source check is OK by me.

ANZAC:
Don't worry, I wasn't really serious about it, I just wanted a little bit of fun!!!

And I know you're all conspiring behind my back!!!

All: I want the game to go on as well, so I say yes, let's someone neutral take a look!!

Scott: you can find the patch you're looking for on :

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2downloads.shtml

sas · June 9, 2002, 17:55

I'm going away for 2-3 weeks, and i leave Darius to handle my affairs while i'm away.

Meaning, he's got my password and you guys need to find someone to babysit France while i'm away. Darius is willing , and i'm okay with that.

cay later

holiday ........... wohooooooooooo,,,,,,,

sas · June 9, 2002, 17:59

Btw, i got this comment about the Scott issue from Duke of Marlbrough, who have taken a look at the game. He's in Civfanatics, so feel free to talk to him.

Here goes:

I think you're right.

He had only 3 or so cities with any production done towards what the city was building in 1905. Yet, he produced 29 of one units and 4 of another in 1906.

Also, one of the cities had 0 production done towards its build in 1905, but the next turn (1906) it had 69 production towards it, but the city only has the production possiblity of 32/turn.

I have a couple screen-shots that show some of this also.

BTW, his gold didn't drop at all, it actually went up, so no way I could see that he bought all those units. Also, his 1905 save had a password, his 1906 save did not. Also the 1905 save had 3 passwords on it, the 1906 save had only 1.

Darius871 · June 9, 2002, 23:55

Wow.

Jacobite1688 · June 10, 2002, 00:30

Exactly my thoughts - wow! It is starting to look bad...

Cyrion · June 10, 2002, 03:37

I noticed a few weird things about the passwords as well: I think I remember mine just disappeared between 2 turns!!

But it could come from one of the remaining bugs in the program, though...

Henrik · June 10, 2002, 05:18

Could I have a look at some of the saves?

Cyrion · June 10, 2002, 07:41

Henrik: please do!!!

Jacobite1688 · June 10, 2002, 09:09

Yes, Henrik! You are well-respected around these parts, what is your oppinion?

Henrik · June 10, 2002, 10:01

Ok, after looking at the saves for 1904, 1905 and 1906 this is what I've discovered:

Germany has never gained more units than she could rush buy, in 1904 she had 35 field artillery and 22 where in production, the following year the germans had 56 field artillery.
The same goes for all germanys turns, more units than germany had cities therefore never happened (which is disturbing since the report screen seems to have told us so, there must be a bug in the civ engine (either that or someone counted wrong

)).

However, between 1904 and 1905 no units where rush bought at all!
In fact, none where even near completion.

Only one german city is capable of building a field artillery on its own in one turn.

Therefore atleast 20 field artilleries seems to have mysteriously materialized out of thin air...

In 1904 germany is running an aproximatly 200 gold deficiet, yet they gain 100 gold the between this turn and the next.
In 1905 they are only running a deficiet of 100 gold, yet they gain 100 gold this turn as well...

These incomes could be the effect of trading, however Germany hasn't got a single trade unit, in either of these saves.

Furthermore it is strange that 35 german cites has factories and all of them have steel mills!
This doesn't need to be cheating, it's just very unusual (atleast this early in the scenario).

With all these things in mind, it seems extremely unlikely that the German player hasn't cheated.