View Poll Results: mikes turboplan
Go for it,the entire plan is ok with me. 8 12.70%
No way,just build it using time and caravans. 9 14.29%
Tax-boost:Yes,I allow it. 11 17.46%
Tax-boost:No,you will not do that we need the science. 5 7.94%
Science-exchange:Go for it,we need to know everything. 12 19.05%
Science-exchange:Are you nuts,give the AI our techs? 4 6.35%
While you are on it you can also try to exchange maps. 10 15.87%
Don't let the AI know where we are=> no map-exchange 4 6.35%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old April 9, 2002, 06:00   #1
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Michelangelo's Chapel,quickbuild plans.
We really need Michelangelo's Chapel,that we all know.
In a few turns we will have Monotheism and then we will start building the Wonder.
We already have quite some shields accumulated and have 3 caravans waiting to help us out...but all of this will not be enough.
Therefor I would suggest a temporary tax-boost to 70% untill we have enough to rushbuild.
To compensate the techloss in those few turns I would then send diplomatic missions to all foreign nations with the only goal to exchange knowledge(techs and maps).

This is a very important decision and therefor I really want the fiat of the foreign and science-advisor(for tech-exchange) and from my trade-advisor(teporary taxchange)
and ofcourse the votes of the ppl

You get 3 days to vote,please do so.

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 06:32   #2
Hydey
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Hydey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:47
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: up shyte creek without a paddle
Posts: 6,250
Foreign Ministers veiw
Our Only embassy tells us we have all the techs that the Indians have, We know that the AI often share techs between themselves so I would assume that we actually have a tech lead at present. When we build more embassies we can check to be sure if any other civ has a tech we need.
If other civs have no techs that we don't have there is nothing to swap for so there is no point in asking to exchange techs if they have nothing to give.
If as I believe we have a slight tech lead a few turns of 70 % tax will not hurt us , our President could confirm this with embassies.
Rather than put the gold directly to rushbuy Mikes we should buy up camels in a number of cities and use camels for the wonder.

These are the views of Hydey foreign minister
__________________
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits

Hydey the no-limits man. :(
Hydey is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 07:20   #3
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Re: Foreign Ministers veiw
Quote:
Originally posted by Hydey
if other civs have no techs that we don't have there is nothing to swap for so there is no point in asking to exchange techs if they have nothing to give.
It wouldn't hurt trying(I'm not saying I'll GIVE them something only exchange if they have something worthwhile)
Quote:
Rather than put the gold directly to rushbuy Mikes we should buy up camels in a number of cities and use camels for the wonder.

These are the views of Hydey foreign minister
I'll take a look wich is most cheap at the time.

thx for the advice Hydey
Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 08:16   #4
-Jrabbit
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II MultiplayerMacCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization II Succession Games
Deity
 
-Jrabbit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: location, location
Posts: 13,220
Rush-build the caravans, not the WoW!!!
__________________
Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

"The Borg are gay." -Drake Tungsten
-Jrabbit is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 09:07   #5
cavebear
Civilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
cavebear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of the Pleistocene
Posts: 4,788
Rush-building either the Caravans themselves or Mike's directly is going to cost hundreds of gold (700, 800, 900?). Moving the tax rate to the maximum is only going to gain us about 25 per turn (for about 35 total per turn).

The only difference in this plan and the regular process is a (very) few gold pieces per turn. We can't increase the tax rate until we get Monotheism after 3 more turns anyway (in other words, the 4th tax turn from now).

You rush-build a Caravan just starting out (as several are) and it will cost 200 gold after they have about 4 shields.

Mainly, it's about the same any way we build it. I'm not saying trying this will do any particular harm, just not a whole lot of good.
__________________
Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul
cavebear is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 09:41   #6
Marquis de Sodaq
King
 
Marquis de Sodaq's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
Incremental rush-buying camels cost ~2.5g/shield. Rush buying the whole unit costs ~4g/shield. If you rushbuy, rush buy the caravans, NOT the wonder. We have boats to ferry the new caravans to Sodaq. IIRC, we only need 3 more to almost complete the wonder.
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
Marquis de Sodaq is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 09:43   #7
Marquis de Sodaq
King
 
Marquis de Sodaq's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: ... no, a Marquis.
Posts: 2,179
Re: maps
The AI knows the entire map, even if they've never sent a unit out to explore. We may as well trade maps if they are willing. They gain nothing, we gain more geography.
__________________
The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

The gift of speech is given to many,
intelligence to few.
Marquis de Sodaq is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 09:48   #8
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally posted by cavebear
Rush-building either the Caravans themselves or Mike's directly is going to cost hundreds of gold (700, 800, 900?). Moving the tax rate to the maximum is only going to gain us about 25 per turn (for about 35 total per turn).
I just took a look at the game--> rushbuilding Mikes itself is out of the question.It would at least cost us 500G if not more using all the caravans we have.
some numbers:
at this moment there are 66 shield build(we need 400) and the speed of the city is 6 shields/turn
we have 3 caravans ready and 2 very close which are almost complete with 100G they could both be completed entirely.
So we can be sure of >300 shields by the time we can start mikes.
Then rsh another caravan or 2 and finished.
(estimated costs ~200G)

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 11:10   #9
Hywel Dda
Warlord
 
Hywel Dda's Avatar
 
Local Time: 22:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Caernarfon, UK
Posts: 101
I'm intrigued, and slightly mystified, to see that at the time of this posting (9 voters), each individual aspect of the plan is winning its respective sub-poll, yet the "entire plan" option is only drawing with "no way!"

Hywel Dda is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 11:27   #10
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
I think it's caused by the caravans...

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 13:55   #11
Immortal Wombat
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Prince
 
Immortal Wombat's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: in perpetuity
Posts: 4,962
WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CAMELS!!!
__________________
Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy?
"I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis
Immortal Wombat is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 14:40   #12
cavebear
Civilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
cavebear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of the Pleistocene
Posts: 4,788
Quote:
Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
Incremental rush-buying camels cost ~2.5g/shield. Rush buying the whole unit costs ~4g/shield. If you rushbuy, rush buy the caravans, NOT the wonder. We have boats to ferry the new caravans to Sodaq. IIRC, we only need 3 more to almost complete the wonder.
Buying a Caravan (50 shields) whole costs 450 gold (9 gold/shield). And it makes a great deal of difference how many shields you have when you buy. The cost/shield is not at all uniform. Just having 4 shields will cut the cost in half, to about 200 gold. But having 25 shields, it still costs over about 50 gold.
__________________
Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul
cavebear is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 15:34   #13
cavebear
Civilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
cavebear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of the Pleistocene
Posts: 4,788
Quote:
Originally posted by shade

I just took a look at the game--> rushbuilding Mikes itself is out of the question.It would at least cost us 500G if not more using all the caravans we have.
some numbers:
at this moment there are 66 shield build(we need 400) and the speed of the city is 6 shields/turn
we have 3 caravans ready and 2 very close which are almost complete with 100G they could both be completed entirely.
So we can be sure of >300 shields by the time we can start mikes.
Then rsh another caravan or 2 and finished.
(estimated costs ~200G)

Shade
That's about the same as I figured. And it should take 8 turns if I'm counting things correctly. The problem is those very last shields (bought or Caravan). I suggest changing Paha to build a Caravan. Those other places building Caravan number 8 are very slow and several turns away in travel. Paha will surpass them in shields (4/turn) and is nearer.
__________________
Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul
cavebear is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 15:44   #14
steelehc
Prince
 
steelehc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Alaska
Posts: 434
We obviously can't afford to rushbuy the entire wonder, and so I agree with what many are saying.

Rush the caravans, and hopefully that will make the difference.

Another plan, one which I use occaisionalli is to store up fifteen or twenty caravans in a very productive city, and use them to get wonders in a single turn. It works very well, and doesn't use up a cities production for many turns. I think we should try and implement this (somewhat) in our current situation.

Steele
__________________
If this were a movie, there'd be a tunnel or something near here for us to escape through.....
steelehc is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 19:27   #15
MrWhereItsAt
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayAlpha Centauri PBEMSpanish CiversCall to Power Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontPtWDG2 Latin LoversACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansC3CDG The Lost BoysCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
Deity
 
MrWhereItsAt's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:47
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: That's DR WhereItsAt...
Posts: 10,157
<< Waiting for IW to insist on the caravans getting separate grazing areas, one communal grazing area and weekends off >>

All of us must serve Apolytonia in our own way, IW. And for camels, THAT MEANS SACRIFICING THEIR MEASLY LIFEFORMS FOR THE GREATER GOOD, SO THAT WE CAN SACRIFICE FUTURE GENERATIONS FOR GREAT TASKS! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

The one part of the scheme I don't agree with is the tax rate increase. It worried me to begin with, but if cavebear is right then it will do little for us.
__________________
Consul.

Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!
MrWhereItsAt is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 21:52   #16
cavebear
Civilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
cavebear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of the Pleistocene
Posts: 4,788
My concern with the tax rate increase is mostly that it is not much of a gain and I didn't want people to think it would get us to Mike's in 3 turns instead of 8 or 9. Our route to Mike's is about the same, tax rate change or not.

We can't even *start* the proposed tax rate change until we get Monotheism, because that would change our research rate from the current 12 (with 3 turns to completion) to 24 (with 15 turns to compeletion).

But all that aside, I support getting Mike's as quickly as possible by almost any means. We are so limited by having numerous workers stuck as entertainers, and many cities producing only 1 or 2 usable shields that I would disband some Warriors and even Triremes into Sodaq to speed Mike's up by a couple of turns.

We are living off of Martial Law. That causes us to have Warriors of little value eating up shield production and it prevents us from constructing valuable long-term benefits like Libraries and Marketplaces that can increase our gold and tech discovery.

I want us to be able to afford Elephants and Legions, not Warriors. Eliminating unhappiness with Mike's is step 1 on the path to that, so that is my priority. After that, I'll build you Dips and trading Caravans and Libraries where they produce the most benefits.

The better to overcome our enemies...
__________________
Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul
cavebear is offline  
Old April 9, 2002, 23:15   #17
Dr. Nick
Spanish CiversApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Dr. Nick's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mola mazo!
Posts: 13,118
The extra tax money won't rushbuild Mike's but it can rush build caravans...

Me love the Grand Plan.
Dr. Nick is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 07:26   #18
JCP
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization III Democracy GameMacCivilization II Succession GamesScenario League / Civ2-CreationCivilization II Multiplayer
Prince
 
JCP's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:47
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Paris, France, Europe
Posts: 554
Rushbuilding half-built caravans is the best way, as a caravan jioning a WoW = 200g of rushbuilding directly the Wow.
But let'us avoid to break research effort.
__________________
JCP
Paris, FRANCE
JCP is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 07:28   #19
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
We are living off of Martial Law. That causes us to have Warriors of little value eating up shield production and it prevents us from constructing valuable long-term benefits like Libraries and Marketplaces that can increase our gold and tech discovery.
first 3 units are free of support...(this is also one of the reasons why I will oppose every suggestion to change to republic).
As soon as the happiness problem is solved we can start upgrading units(warriors) to elephants and such OR soething wich is even better: start building caravans and store them and aim our science toward invention so we can get Leo's in 1 turn and autoupgrade those warriors to whatever
(from zero to hero )

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 11:43   #20
cavebear
Civilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
cavebear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of the Pleistocene
Posts: 4,788
Quote:
Originally posted by shade

first 3 units are free of support...(this is also one of the reasons why I will oppose every suggestion to change to republic).
As soon as the happiness problem is solved we can start upgrading units(warriors) to elephants and such OR soething wich is even better: start building caravans and store them and aim our science toward invention so we can get Leo's in 1 turn and autoupgrade those warriors to whatever
(from zero to hero )

Shade
Yes, the first 3 are free under Monarchy (and I agree completely about not going to Republic, we would go negative on shields in most cities). But when a city is only producing 3 shields and 2 of them are going to military units #4 and #5, it sure slows down production.

If we get Leo's anytime soon, it will be nice to see the cheap little Warriors become big bad Pikesmen and Crusaders, but it's costing us to keep them around.
__________________
Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul
cavebear is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 12:00   #21
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
don't worry no-one has dared to attack us yet(except barbs)...

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 18:14   #22
Shaka Naldur
Civilization II PBEMSpanish CiversCivilization II Democracy Game: Red Front
Emperor
 
Shaka Naldur's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Castellón, Spain
Posts: 3,571
I thought that we´ve been attacked by the babylonians also
Shaka Naldur is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 18:18   #23
shade
Civilization II Democracy Game
King
 
shade's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: of bribery.
Posts: 2,196
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaka Naldur
I thought that we´ve been attacked by the babylonians also
oeps ,yup they sank one of their tririmes when they attacked us...(It was far from our territory and we had only little damage(yellow) maybe that's why I forgot)

btw I've send message to all(except trade) advisors to send me their reports by friday(I hope El Awrence sees this because I couldn't send him a message,inbox is full)

Shade
__________________
ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)
shade is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 19:31   #24
cavebear
Civilization II Democracy Game
Emperor
 
cavebear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of the Pleistocene
Posts: 4,788
I wasn't worried about being attacked. The President and War Advisor seem to have things well in hand. I'm worried about our pathetic shield production.

That *is* my job, right?
__________________
Civ2 Demo Game #1 City-Planner, President, Historian
Civ2 Demo Game #2 Minister of War,President, Minister of Trade, Vice President, City-Planner
Civ2 Demo Game #3 President, Minister of War, President
Civ2 Demo Game #4 Despot, City-Planner, Consul
cavebear is offline  
Old April 10, 2002, 19:32   #25
ixnay
Civilization II Democracy GamePtWDG Lux InvictaPtWDG Gathering StormInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 Cake or Death?C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV CreatorsAge of Nations Team
Emperor
 
ixnay's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:47
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 3,215
OK, rush the caravans.
ixnay is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 18:47.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team