The GUTS of some people.

Bereta_Eder · April 13, 2002, 20:11

As all of you don't know propably, there is a "neo fascist" (or "neo racist", anyway something new and very bad) group in Greece.

Its name is Hrysi Auyi (=Golden Dawn) and it has a newspaper and everything. It could be paraleled to a certain degree with Belgium's Vlaams Blok (without the separationist propaganda).

There very few members, although it exists for quite some time.

The problem is that they are somewhat "active". I've only seen them twice. Once in the subway where they were distributing some propagandist pamphlets (some years ago) and the other time it was on TV.

They had a march at night in a central square of Athens. They were very few.

In any case they had these kinds of flags (which I don't know what they are and I don't relly want to know).

Now they were marching and a young guy with long hair steps out of nowhere and gets RIGHT THERE in the middle of them, grabs one flag and tried to tear it in front of them.

If this is not GUTS I don't know what it is.
They attacked him and beat him up before the police could arrive and rescue him.

But even when the police had dragged him away from them, he returned got the flag and again tried to tear it up.
He was again beaten and again saved by the police which after that stayed a while between him and them.

GUTS my friends...

David Floyd · April 13, 2002, 20:13

Sounds like he was destroying private property of a political group which was exercising its freedom - you'll excuse me if I feel little sympathy for the guy

loinburger · April 13, 2002, 20:15

Quote:

Sounds like he was destroying private property of a political group which was exercising its freedom - you'll excuse me if I feel little sympathy for the guy

Bereta_Eder · April 13, 2002, 20:18

in american terms that would be a guy who steps in a KKK march, grabs their flag and tries to tear it up.

Skanky Burns · April 13, 2002, 20:23

Crazy bastard...

David Floyd · April 13, 2002, 20:25

paiktis, anyone who destroys the private property of the KKK will not get my support, either.

Thoth · April 13, 2002, 20:26

I admire his spirit, if not his wisdom.

Ecthy · April 13, 2002, 20:27

That's not guts, it's stupidity. But someone has to do it to show the people what they should be doing altogether.

mactbone · April 13, 2002, 20:35

It's stupid, as long as the protest was legal he had no right to do that. The only person he was hurting was himself. Then, the group beat him up, which was just as stupid. Everyone involved should be taken to trial.

KrazyHorse · April 13, 2002, 20:39

Don't be silly. The ****wits were exercising their right to be ****wits. The guy with long hair was expressing his displeasure at their ****wittedness. They then expressed their displeasure at his displeasure.

orange · April 13, 2002, 20:39

does he have guts, yes. But i gotta go with DF on this one. They have a right to free speech, no matter what that message is, so long as they don't directly infringe on the rights of others. They didn't have a right to beat him up, but then again, he didn't have the right to rip their flag. If it was his own flag that he bought/brought to the rally, than he should have been able to do that without consequence as well.

I suppose you wouldn't know about those details, paitkis?

Grrr · April 13, 2002, 20:41

Next time, use a lighter. It's more fun that way, and more effective.

KrazyHorse · April 13, 2002, 20:41

Oh, and I've been to more than one rally where things got slightly "physical". Nobody cares as long as it doesn't get too out of hand. The cops should (and often do) know better than to start arresting people left and right, because that's what turns protests into riots.

Hueij · April 13, 2002, 20:43

Quote:

Sounds like he was destroying private property of a political group which was exercising its freedom - you'll excuse me if I feel little sympathy for the guy

Floyd, Floyd, Floyd.. Is this the same argument you used when you justified the expulsion of the American Indians from their lands? If so, are you sure this political group had documents that proved they owned the flag?

Anyways, don't answer, this post is just meant to test my avatar

KrazyHorse · April 13, 2002, 20:44

Quote:

They have a right to free speech, no matter what that message is, so long as they don't directly infringe on the rights of others

Somebody starts sieg heiling me I'm more likely than not going to pop him one. Too bad for whoever tries it.

Ecthy · April 13, 2002, 20:46

Two typical observations:

1. For Americans, property is more important than ethics.

2. Naitonal Socialism and/or Fascism aren't all that bad for Americans.

Nothing new after so many of our Americans have admitted to preferring fascism over communism.

I'd be ashamed if I discovered my own handle next to one of those posts.

I stand up and say it

Grrr · April 13, 2002, 20:51

You're a bloody troll. - Don't ban me free speech.
Let's kill George Bush - Don't ban me free speech.

It should be limited at some point.

mactbone · April 13, 2002, 20:51

Look, the best way to get people to stop joining groups like the KKK, is to ignore them. I live in Indiana, which IIRC is the bithplace of the Klan and they still have a mrach every couple of years. Everyone makes a big deal about it, but everything's legal. The best way to get your message across to these groups is an empty street.

I don't care what your message is, you have the same rights as everyone else. We don't have special laws requiring bigots to wear patches and we don't let people destroy other people's property no matter who you are.

KrazyHorse · April 13, 2002, 20:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Grrr
You're a bloody troll. - Don't ban me free speech.
Let's kill George Bush - Don't ban me free speech.

It should be limited at some point.

Not by the government it shouldn't. I just think that it's a matter for my own brand of community policing...

Ecthy · April 13, 2002, 20:54

I'm not being a troll

The difference is - we learn from history, you don't. We've had a democracy destroyed by voters because it was not properly protected, now it is protected. Call it a false democracy, but at least we (and the rest of Europe and in the long term the world) won't be rueld by fascists that easily again

mactbone · April 13, 2002, 20:54

KH, if you break the law, it doesn't matter your reasons, you've still broken the law. Not only that, but you legitimize them by recognizing them.

If some drunk guy stumbles by yelling obscenities, do you hit him and force him to sober up? No, you ignore him because for all intents and purposes he's just looking for attention.

Grrr · April 13, 2002, 20:56

I wasn't calling you a troll even though I may have insinuated.

What is George Bush if he isn't a fascist?

Hueij · April 13, 2002, 20:57

First they came for the Jews... They cried for help but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew...

Then they came for the kommies... They also cried for help, but I'm not a kommie...

Next were the gypsies... But I'm not a gypsie...

When they came for me, I cried for help... But there was no one left to hear...

Ecthy · April 13, 2002, 20:58

he's the president of the united states.

The leader of a democracy that is merely run by quite reactionary (or conservative for that matter) forces, at least for European standards. Domestic policies seem authoritarian at times, especially when your very freedom is limited because the relevant acting might harm the individual freedom of the masses, but let's not get into this

. After all he's been voted for by almost half of the people, so he's better than any of the current European leaders

KrazyHorse · April 13, 2002, 20:59

Quote:

KH, if you break the law, it doesn't matter your reasons, you've still broken the law. Not only that, but you legitimize them by recognizing them

That's nice.

Quote:

If some drunk guy stumbles by yelling obscenities, do you hit him and force him to sober up? No, you ignore him because for all intents and purposes he's just looking for attention

Drunk people are a danger to themselves. Jackass neo-nazis are a danger to me. I'll feel free to push the edge of the law to demonstrate to them that the climate is inhospitable to their ideas.

You've never been in a fight, have you.

Grrr · April 13, 2002, 21:00

Yeah, he had less votes than Al Gore, yet he deserves to be president.

loinburger · April 13, 2002, 21:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij
When they came for me, I cried for help... But there was no one left to hear...

...so they kicked me until I stopped trying to tear up their flag.

mactbone · April 13, 2002, 21:04

I have been in a fight, but only once. I stand by everyting that I say and don't back down. Various people have threatened, etc. but noone does the deed. Back then I was a lot smaller than them too, so they weren't afraid of being hurt.

I don't see the need for violence, just ignore them. Most of these people just want attention, if you don't give them the time of day, they're not going to last long.

loinburger · April 13, 2002, 21:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Grrr
Yeah, he had less votes than Al Gore, yet he deserves to be president.

Lincoln had far less than 50% of the popular vote, but he still won the majority of the electoral votes. I'd hardly say that his election was illegitimate as a result...

orange · April 13, 2002, 21:04

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Quote:

They have a right to free speech, no matter what that message is, so long as they don't directly infringe on the rights of others

Somebody starts sieg heiling me I'm more likely than not going to pop him one. Too bad for whoever tries it.

And you would be at fault.