Are the Japanese truly insane?

[HisMajestyBOB]

Apparantly you have the Japanese to blame for the link in my sig.

[Seeker]

"Mr Ozawa, known for his hawkish views, emphasised that his remarks were aimed at encouraging China to speed up its transition to democracy, and to build a closer relationship with Japan."

LOL recalls previous Japanese attempts to 'encourage' a 'friendly government' in China...


BTW, I may be in Tokyo next year...what trains are these schoolgirls on?

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by ixnay37


How much anime have you actually watched?

Too much. ANY is too much. It causes brain rot so you will be deieved into tolerating low frame rates you would never accept in a game.

I would say that hardly any is as bad as you describe it.

Yes some flip between two or three cells at 10 frames a second while scolling a background till the next slide comes up. Lip animation on fixed figures does not count as frames.

I will give them this much though. None are as badly animated as Clutch Cargo. They superimposed real lips instead of animating them. REALY weird looking.

J. Ward's Rocky and Bullwinkle had some realy low frame rates too but there were funny.

[Wraith]

--"I mean, this is the culture that brought us Nasubi, Yatta!,"

Don't forget Domo-kun and wasabi flavored gummi fish.

--"From our Western perspective, are the Japanese truly nuts?"

Just different. It's not like Westerners aren't nuts themselves. I mean we've got our Sumo fetish, only we put pads on them and run them in groups and call it football (or go with less pads and call it rugby). We make cartoons about singing teapots and so on.

Edit: Almost forgot this one:
Winnie the Pooh Worships Satan (this is a link directly to the .mov file).

--"4 frames per second is NOT animation. Its a slide show."

Someone's been watching Violinist of Hamelin, I see. Try something recent like Cowboy Bebop.

Wraith
"She's an unremarkable woman... who's dazzling, dangerous, and utterly untouchable. Just an ordinary woman..."
-- Faye Valentine ("Cowboy Bebop")

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by DanS
Some of that stuff is truly disturbing to my eyes, even though I know it's a stylization. And there is a lot of it. Why can't they just have some good, clean porn?

They do.

Some (apparently many) want more than that though.

[Urban Ranger]

DanS,

Japanese movie industry has been rotting. Now the two things they are good at are anime and porn (regular and extra strength).

[devilmunchkin]

no they arn't
they're very logical and real *hint hint*
and vey exotic!!! yummmmmmyyyyy!!!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Japan has just as much right to maintain an army as any other nation on Earth.

I have never maintained that Japan has no right in having an armed force. This appears to be a strawman.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
As for Japan having the second highest defense budget in the world, IIRC Japan has always limited its defense budget to 1% of its GDP. When you have the second largest economy on Earth, however, 1% is a lot of money.

I hate to break this to you, but they have been spending more than that 1% for years now.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Despite this, I don't think anyone who is knowledgable on the subject would claim that Japan is remilitarizing or planning to abandon its peacetime constitution.

I hate to break this to you, but they are actually planning to amend the constitution to remove restrictions placed on the military.

While the Defense Force is not supposed to be deployed outside of Japan, the current government is ignoring that restiction too.

So tell me, how does your Appeal to Authority work?

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Japan has a capable and high tech force, but it is built specifically for defensive purposes (hence the name "Self Defense Forces").

It do not have carriers, yet, but it can still project power to neighbouring countries.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Japan has the money and technology to build a world class offensive force, but they haven't done so yet and have expressed no plans to do so.

No plans? Then why are they thinking of screwing around with the constitution now that they have been violating the provisions left and right?

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I hate to break this to you, but they have been spending more than that 1% for years now.

Well, the CIA World Factbook seems to agree with me. According to it, Japan spent .96% of its GDP on military expenditures in 2001. Correct me if I'm wrong, but .96% is less than 1%...

I hate to break this to you, but they are actually planning to amend the constitution to remove restrictions placed on the military.

While the Defense Force is not supposed to be deployed outside of Japan, the current government is ignoring that restiction too.

To the best of my knowledge, the only proposed changes to the constitution have involved the participation of Japanese forces in international peacekeeping missions. In this capacity, the Japanese have served in Cambodia, Mozambique, and Rwanda as part of UN forces. Pretty scary, isn't it?

The Self Defense Forces have also sent some ships to help the US in its war on terrorism, but these ships are being used in a support role, not in combat. You could technically claim that this is a violation of the Japanese constitution, but I don't think that these types of deployments violate the constitution's pacifistic spirit.

It do not have carriers, yet, but it can still project power to neighbouring countries.

Sure they do...

Japan would be hard pressed to project its power to South Korea, which is right next door. It is impossible for Japan to project any meaningful military power towards China, its biggest potential rival. Japan's military force only extends as far as the range of its air force which, lacking carriers, isn't very far.

No plans? Then why are they thinking of screwing around with the constitution now that they have been violating the provisions left and right?

Show me some evidence for these plans and maybe I'll revise my views. Until then, I'll treat all this fear of a resurgent Japanese military for what it is: baseless conjecture and paranoia.

This appears to be a strawman.

So tell me, how does your Appeal to Authority work?

High school debating techniques don't help your argument as much as some actual facts would...

edit: Forgot about Japanese peacekeeping missions in Mozambique and Rwanda.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Ethelred

J. Ward's Rocky and Bullwinkle had some realy low frame rates too but there were funny.

Rocky and Bullwinkle? What's that?

What has frame rate got to do with anything anyway? If the frame rate is low, blame your TV.

And please name these poor series so I can avoid them. I have seen only ten so far and they've been fine.

[Dis]

I do think lack of sex does cause perversion. Hey that's the only way I can explain my perverted ways

But what I don't understand is why they have so little sex. They have less sex than any other nation. But that is an easy situation to remedy. Have more sex!!!

All the Japanese need is a good lay. I may fly there this year to provide that for some women.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well thank God for Dissident! Maybe that will make the Japanese coming overseas a little more, "friendly" for the rest of us.

[Dis]

while I'm here, what's the deal with anime? why is it so popular when it looks so stupid?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Well, the CIA World Factbook seems to agree with me. According to it, Japan spent .96% of its GDP on military expenditures in 2001. Correct me if I'm wrong, but .96% is less than 1%...

That's nice, except that you forgot to mention that's just an estimate

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
To the best of my knowledge, the only proposed changes to the constitution have involved the participation of Japanese forces in international peacekeeping missions.

That's because you don't know enough.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
In this capacity, the Japanese have served in Cambodia, Mozambique, and Rwanda as part of UN forces. Pretty scary, isn't it?

Considering that any breach of the constitution is still a breach, yes.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The Self Defense Forces have also sent some ships to help the US in its war on terrorism, but these ships are being used in a support role, not in combat.

Hardly defending itself, eh?

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
You could technically claim that this is a violation of the Japanese constitution, but I don't think that these types of deployments violate the constitution's pacifistic spirit.

Supporting attacks against other countries by deploying to areas outside of Japan? You call that pacifistic? You certainly has an interesting definition of pacifism.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Sure they do...

Japan would be hard pressed to project its power to South Korea, which is right next door. It is impossible for Japan to project any meaningful military power towards China, its biggest potential rival. Japan's military force only extends as far as the range of its air force which, lacking carriers, isn't very far.

You have completely forgotten about their threats of building thousands of nuclear missiles? Besides, they certainly have tankers.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Show me some evidence for these plans and maybe I'll revise my views.

That's fine, you can keep your view all you want. But check this a, this, and this.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Until then, I'll treat all this fear of a resurgent Japanese military for what it is: baseless conjecture and paranoia.

Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it's "baseless conjecture and paranoia". Considering that many Japanese, esp rightwing politicans, show absolutely no remorse for their deeds in WWII, there is every right for the neighbouring countries to be concerned.

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
High school debating techniques don't help your argument as much as some actual facts would...

If you have facts you wouldn't resort to fallacies. Now show me those facts of yours.

[MrWhereItsAt]

What's the deal with anime?


It's not Disney. And that's a good thing.

[notyoueither]

How did a perfectly good thread bog down in this quote vs quote b*llsh*t.

BTW. Stefu, you're supposed to be kidnapped. You haven't been officially released yet. At least you were a good sport, even if your countrymen couldn't give a rats *ss about rescuing you.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt


Rocky and Bullwinkle? What's that?

Its an American TV series from the 60's. Very low quality animation but high levels of humour. A movie was made based on it last year.

Rocky the flying squirell and Bullwinkle the Moose. The voice of Rocky was by June Foray and Bill Scott did Bullwinkle. Its still funny but the last time I saw one I was laughing at the animation as well as the jokes. Its not ugly just low frame rate.

What has frame rate got to do with anything anyway? If the frame rate is low, blame your TV.

Animation is drawn. There are 24 frames per second in a film. Top quality animation need 24 drawings per second. Thats a lot of drawings. Good animation will vary the rate from 12 to 24 drawings per second depending on the needs of the scene. Saturday morning kiddy animation will hardly ever reach 12 frames and the same for anime. Anime and Rocky both tend to have no frames a second to save drawings whenever they can get away with it. Anime will tilt the camera around to simulate action but Rocky didn't didn't do that that I can recall.

J. Ward also did two other cartoons that have been turned into movies both with Brendan Fraser in the lead. George of the Jungle and Dudley Do-Right. Rocky and Bullwinkle were better cartoons than the second two.

[QUOTE
And please name these poor series so I can avoid them. I have seen only ten so far and they've been fine. [/QUOTE]

Hey I don't watch the stufff. Last Japanimation that I watched more than a few minutes of was Gigantor. Speed Racer came after that. The only new stuff I can remember by name is Sailor Moon. The US version not the Japanese pedophile version.

[Skanky Burns]

How did a perfectly good thread bog down in this quote vs quote b*llsh*t.

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I'm very offended by it.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Cheers Ethelred.

Maybe the low frame rate is part of the difference that gives anime it's appeal. Overall the animation is certainly distinct from the American-origin cartoons, and in most cases with cartoons you don't want to look too deeply anyway.

I love the idea of a nation stuck on comics/cartoons - crazy, yes. But sounds fun to me! ^_^

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's nice, except that you forgot to mention that's just an estimate

The Factbook doesn't list it as an estimate.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

Check it out. It's at the very bottom of the page about Japan.

At any rate, you're paranoid about a return of Japanese militarism. Yes, Japan did some horrible things in WWII, but to assume that any move by Japan to change its constitution now will inevitably lead to the IJA stomping through Asia again is absurd. The whole region has changed drastically in the past 57 years. The Japanese public won't support a return to militarism and even if they did, I don't think that Japan would (or could) take military action in Asia. Why try to conquer regions with military force when you already control them economically? Japan has little interest in expanding its military; I think that if you would research Koizumi's proposals a little more closely you would find that U.S. pressure is behind them. The U.S. wants Japan to assume more of a leadership role in East Asia, but Japan appears content to leave the military role in the region to the U.S. Why wouldn't they want free military protection?

I just wish the hardliners in Japan and their counterparts in China and Korea would just bury the hatchet. The Japanese should apologize for their actions in WWII and the Koreans should stop cutting off digits every time a Japanese PM visits the Yasukuni Shrine. Radicals on both sides are poisoning what should be a peaceful and prosperous new order in East Asia. Just my two cents.

edit: The CIA World Factbook also has this to say:

Government-industry cooperation, a strong work ethic, mastery of high technology, and a comparatively small defense allocation (1% of GDP) have helped Japan advance with extraordinary rapidity to the rank of second most technologically powerful economy in the world after the US and third largest economy in the world after the US and China.

But then again, I don't know enough, right?

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by notyoueither
How did a perfectly good thread bog down in this quote vs quote b*llsh*t.

Sorry about the threadjacking. I'll try to get it back on topic.

I don't know if the Japanese are truly insane or not, but their game shows certainly make me wonder about them. Some of the craziest (and possibly cruelest) things that I've ever seen turned into television entertainment...

[MrWhereItsAt]

Personally I think the US matches Japan for crazy gameshow-type programs, just not quite as self-deprecating as the Japanese ones - yet.

Survivor (although incredible popular) has to count as one of the most brilliant yet insane ideas concocted for mainstream Western TV schedules ever. What about The Chair (if that's what it's called)?


Only in America (or Japan).

[-=Vagrant=-]

Originally posted by Ethelred

The only new stuff I can remember by name is Sailor Moon. The US version not the Japanese pedophile version.

Don't forget the japanese lesbianity in Sailor Moon.

[Skanky Burns]

[Az]

what the hell is Sailor Moon ????

[Kassiopeia]

Why is there no link to tentacle rape hentai?

My point exactly.

Actually, I've never liked anime, but my girlfriend does, so, erm, I'm a bit stranded there.

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Sava,

Go to hell. The US suffered some minor losses during 911 and you people were all gung-ho against the Taliban. They are your benevolent Uncle Bob compared to the IJA. There is completely no justification at all for Japan to maintain a large army. Absolutely none.

Look children, I found the Apolyton North Korean Mole!!!

Every nation has the right to defend itself. If they want to spend tons of money on defense, let them. You're just mad because your commie friends in China and North Korea can't invade Japan.

BTW, what does 911 have to do with this topic? I don't recall mentioning it. I was for a military campaign in the entire Mid-East region before 9-11. You forget, I am a power monger. My eventual goal is to become dictator of the planet. (I'm not kidding) Sure, I might be insane, but where's the fun in being normal?

[-=Vagrant=-]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
what the hell is Sailor Moon ????

Lesbianity got your attention, eh?

http://www.projectanime.com/sailormoon/

[Wraith]

--"Japanese movie industry has been rotting."

Yeah, their live action industry peaked a while ago. Of course, Hollywood peaked a long time ago.

--"And please name these poor series so I can avoid them."

There are some that are done at extremely low frame rates. This is just a budget thing; some of these shows are done on incredibly small budgets. The one I mentioned above, Violinist of Hamelin, is probably the worst offender in this regard.

--"But what I don't understand is why they have so little sex."

Cultural thing, at least partly blamable on the post-WW2 US occupation. The way things are in Japan now, kids (especially guys) have to focus on school very heavily. Contact between the sexes is fairly limited most of time, so they don't get a chance to learn how to act around girls (or girls around guys) before dating age.

--"while I'm here, what's the deal with anime? why is it so popular when it looks so stupid?"

What about it looks stupid to you? There are many styles within anime, so it would help to know which one you're talking about.
In any case, the real draw (couldn't resist) of anime to me is the stories. Stuff like Magic User's Club, Serial Experiments: Lain, Jin-Roh, etc. Hollywood can't seem to churn out anything more than extremely lame comedies (usually based almost soley on physical or bodily function humor) or over the top action movies (with Good vs Evil and a Happy Ending (tm)). That gets boring pretty quickly.

--"The only new stuff I can remember by name is Sailor Moon."

It's not really all that new, either. Try watching something like Read or Die, or Figure 17.
Or I could be mean and suggest Digi Charat or Tiny Snow Fairy Sugar

--"Maybe the low frame rate is part of the difference that gives anime it's appeal."

Anime is a growth off of the manga (comic book) industry. It's taken a lot of traditions from there. The style is still more important than the frame rate overall, but most productions any more are able to do pretty decent animation work. Then there's stuff like Studio Ghibli's movies...

--"what the hell is Sailor Moon ?"

Anime series about a group of "magical girls". Think young female superheroes and you won't be too far off.
The US dubbed version got chopped up when it was brought over. There were some things that US editors didn't want kids to see, among them a relationship between two of the Outer Senshi.

This kind of thing happens all the time. If you're watching anime on Fox, it's probably been heavily altered. Cardcaptors, for instance, is a chopped version of Cardcaptor Sakura. The US version brings a secondary character into equal promininence with the main character (editors again; didn't think the US was ready for a female lead without a guy around to fix everything) and attempts to obscure a lot of relationships. They've actually pieced together new episodes by splicing together two or more. Ugh. Almost as bad as Robotech.

Wraith
"It's not Brits who think American readers are a bunch of whinging morons with the geo-social understanding of a wire coathanger, it's American editors."
-- Terry Pratchett (alt.fan.pratchett)

[faded glory]

The japenese trains...hehe. Ever seen those things? There so packed..lots of people (men) take advatage of the squeeze to touch other, erm younger people (women).