Slow Pokes.

[rah]

Thanks for the Kind words. (I think )

It's all about preparation and attitude. We always play without a timer to accomodate exceptions. But I still play Like i'm under one. I feel bad when a unit's turn comes up and I realize I didn't know in advance what I had planned for it. Or when info revealed during a turn makes me pause for a sec to reconsider a certain strategy. Or when a popup tells me a city is building something that it already built for multiple turns, and I quickly change it during my turn so I don't forget it AGAIN.

When A city changes demand the turn I'm delivering a caravan, I don't stop and check new demands, I end that unit's turn and figure it out while someone else is moving. (even though in general, I follow Markus's quick moving tactic. When in doubt, move the caravan towards your capital.) Figure it out on someone else's turn. Yes, it sometimes costs me a turn because I move a unit the wrong way, but I prefer doing that then being what I consider rude.

WE"VE ALL BEEN PLAYING THIS GAME FOR YEARS, it isn't that hard.

By playing this way, I know other players will be tolerant when I have the occasional brain fart and take a little longer. They know there's a decent reason. (rich has had a few to many beers )

But after all is said and done, it's all about common curtesy.
If I can move 5x the number of units in the same amount of time, then the other player is just.
1. unprepared
2. stupid
3. intoxicated
4. RUDE
5. SLOW
6. ASLEEP (sorry ming, couldn't pass it up)
7. Taking the game way way too seriously and should stick to playing the AI.

Only 3 is acceptable, and only as an exception to the norm.


RAH
/rant off/

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by rah
I don't mind when a person's turn takes a little longer every now and then. But when it happens turn after turn after turn, then it's obvious that the person is making too many decisions during his movement and doing some micromanagement, or just being rude (intentionally or not). As AH says, I don't have that much free time, and I put every effort into making my turn as fast as possible, and I expect others that I play with to do the same.

Like I said - if all the players are taking 2 mins every turn and 1 player is taking an hour that seems out of line. But in my experience that usually isn't the case. It's usually more like some players are taking 2 -4 mins and 1 or 2 are taking 5 or 6. I think there can be plenty of legitimate reasons for one player taking 50-100% longer on thier turns without it being a case of city micromanagement, inappropriate decision making or rudeness.

For example, last nite I played a 2x2x king medium map game on the zone. First off I never play those settings so that could slow me down a little. But as the game got going I had 20 cities, and was on a pretty big continent by myself. I uncovered alot of huts which led to alot of units. They're all out exploring on double movement. At this point I was taking about 2 - 2 1/2 mins a turn and the other players were getting pissed because I was taking too long (they were taking anywhere from 30 secs to about 1 1/2 mins.) So after about an hour of playing they quit saying the game was taking too long and they had to go to bed. (why they would start a game when they had to go to bed in an hour I don't understand but thats beside the point) As it turns out I had more cities then the 2 combined and way more units in the field.

So in this example I was actually moving quicker on a per unit basis and probably about the same on a per city basis. The only way I could have made these guys happy would have been to play a different strategy (basically sleep my units instead of exploring or build a few large cities instead of alot of smaller cities)

I know that this example is on one end of the spectrum, just as AH's example was on the other. But it has the elements of what I was referring to earlier as legitimate reasons for 50 - 100% time disparities in turns on a consistant basis. To put it another way, someone who is following the "trade strategies for dummies" will have alot quicker turns (primary activity is rushbuilding and landing camels) then someone following a strategy that is not so narrow. Or compare the length of time it takes to play an OCC game vs a standard game.

After having said all that, I agree that everyone should be experienced with the fkeys for speedy city checking BETWEEN turns, use goto commands when possible and have the plan for thier next mov planned out before thier turn starts.

Anyways that my 2 cents (or maybe a little more).

PS Markusf - in our last game with RAH you know damn well you were responsible for alot of the delays. I don't want to get into here but you know what I am talking about.

[rah]

I agree that some strats take longer than other. Heck, in games where I get off to a slow start, my turns take a blink of the eye. And in games where war4 and I decide to exterminate each other, my moves take considerable more time.

I won't call a player slow until I've played with them a few time. Just like normal research, you need multiple observations. But like normal research, I can figure out trends. Due to limited play time, I do include people's post in these forum as additional observations. I may weight those observations a little less but I do consider them.

Please feel free to elaborate on why you were so slow in our last game, so I can take it into consideration. It obviously wasn't due to the number of cities or units.

RAH

[markusf]

Originally posted by Deity Dude

To put it another way, someone who is following the "trade strategies for dummies" will have alot quicker turns (primary activity is rushbuilding and landing camels) then someone following a strategy that is not so narrow.

Uhm... When you do this your turns take far longer. because even if you have 40 army units you can't move them all at once without your cities going into rebellion... But if you have 20 caravans it takes a while to move them.

[Ming]

Originally posted by markusf
But if you have 20 caravans it takes a while to move them.

That's why God created Go To commands

[markusf]

Originally posted by Ming


That's why God created Go To commands

on rah's map they don't help much... damn caras don't like to follow the roads.

[deity]

Originally posted by markusf



deity 5/17/200 12:40 AM MULT (copied to Elendil)
Well, it seems that me and Berz are the only
ones interested in continuing the Millenium
game
I don't want to make Elendil feel bad but the
guts got kicked out of it when he left. I
think the only way it will get going again is
if he comes back.


The reason we didn't want to continue is because you wanted to change it to turn based.. Most of us where not prepared to sit through 7 players taking 20 minute turns. Note you where taking 20 minute turns WHILE EVERYONE WAS AT PEACE!

Not true. I may have suggested turn based but I accepted simul 20 mins which I'd previously proposed anyway....

My turns were 20 mins, yes. I'm sorry for existing

[deity]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Eastern Rosella 1: "So, what do you want to do this afternoon."

Eastern Rosella 2: "Deity should have had his phone line repaired by now, are you hungry?"

ROTFLMAO!

The funny thing is it's true!!!!

Telstra took 3 months to get to the bottom of the "Parrot Conspiracy"....

[Alexander's Horse]

Damn parrots - they do like the insulation.

Down here the Cockatoos like to eat the rubber seal from the street lamps. You see them bold as brass hanging upside down from street lamps pulling the rubber seal out. The lamp or its cover then crashes to the ground. Whole streets have their street lamps destroyed like that.

[finbar]

Welcome to Canberra - The Land That Time Forgot.

[Alexander's Horse]

Naughty cockatoos is about as exciting as the local TV news gets

[StrategicKingMi]

Yes, I am the player that takes the most time during thier turn. However, it is far from slow. It is effective. I get more out of each and every turn then any other player on Earth.
I have read much about hex editing lately, and in many games I had a secret desire to have others watch my play so I can share my genius with others directly. Sometimes things work out so perfect , it is a testomony to the planning i put into the game.
I dont play Civ very often . So when I play, I want to do the very best I can and.. sorry, that takes time. if you have no time to play, or want to play a happhazzard player, thier are many in the zone that I can recomend you play.
If you want to play the very best, here I am.
The following is a checklist of things I do during my turn:

1) I religiously check my workers to ensure they are all in the most ideal location-
a) checking food box to fill it up and not miss it because of a miss placed worker
b) moving workers from production to trade producers in order to prevent "worthless shield production"
c) resource sharing-I build around a particular resource like spice for example. I'll build 2-4 citys around it and share it by removing a worker from city A and work it from city B and so on. This allows celebration easier and also allows greater trade route payoffs by increasing trade production in a sending or recieving city.
2) Ship Chaining- I am the greatest user of ship chaining in Civ history. For you who are not familiar with this tatic, you put a ship in a port, then move cargo there. Load ship and move out to an awaiting ship off shore. Activate cargo, resentry it and move new ship and the cargo will move with the new ship. this allows unlimited movement over water and , with this flexability comes slow play. ( I had a game verse Kuja where I was moving caravans over 40 spaces and delivering them to his citys for huge payoffs)
3) "Clicking around"- since I play on "real world boards" with many islands and conts. , I plan to get off my cont and explore others . To do so , I need to know where they are . So, I click around in the darkness quite often to see the cont. # change.
4) Spending gold- I produce tons of gold via trade routes. I spend gold for max. benifit and this takes time.
5) takes alot of time to set up routes for max. benifit

The great thing about Civ is you can do so many other things while playing. Watch TV, study, drink, smoke, clean, have sex with your girlfriend between turns (twice if you have the stamina and are playing me), surf the internet, etc.
So sit back, relax, and enjoy my genius when playing me.

[rah]

Half those thing you could do between turns. SO that makes you not just a braggart but a RUDE one.

Won't find many games with that kind of attitude.

[Ming]

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi
However, it is far from slow. It is effective.

Hmmmm... far from slow...


Go play some SP... I'm sure the computer will be impressed with your "genius"...

Like rah said, most of that stuff can be done while others are moving. Anybody that would do all that stuff DURING their turn just shows their lack of concern for others... have fun finding somebody you can impress with your "genius"...

[StrategicKingMi]

No, you cant do it during other players turn, unless that player agrees not to end his turn before I am done with my work. I only play duels due to time constraints. And I never complain if other players turn takes a while to finish.
And most players that play me on a regular basis apreciate my style of play. If you want to play your own little click, then by all means stick with them and stop the Strate bashing.

[rah]

You do make a good point, Duels are a little different. Turns do move much quicker. I will admit that during duels I will do my incremental buying of units during my turn also, at least early in the game when turns are moving quickly. (way to many dips when I wanted settlers )
BUT the rest of my maint. I'll do during the other persons turn. If I miss out on a shield or two or a trade arrow or two, it's not the end of the world. Anything in the interest of speeding up the game is important. I treat it as a common curtesy.

AND I will continue to respond to/bash anyone that supports slow play.

RAH

[Ming]

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi
And most players that play me on a regular basis apreciate my style of play.

You must play a lot of losers if they are willing to sit back for hours waiting for you to micromanage your civ to death during your turn... instead of doing some of it during their turn

I have yet to find anybody that "appreciates" a style of rude and slow play

[SlowwHand]

Yeah, don't even go there, Strat.

[markusf]

Originally posted by Ming




You must play a lot of losers if they are willing to sit back for hours waiting for you to micromanage your civ to death during your turn... instead of doing some of it during their turn

I have yet to find anybody that "appreciates" a style of rude and slow play

Oh i don't think anyone will ever play him.

You have more cities then him. Demands restart.
You have more free tribes. Demands restart.
you build lighthouse or HG. Demands restart.
you get early rep, Demands restart.
Misses change year, Demands restart.
etc etc,
If that doesn't work, he just gets disconnected and doesn't come back. Not to mention half hour turns at 2500 bc are rediculus. I have never seen a bigger quiter.

[Chris 62]

You just don't "appreiciate" his "genius".

He's a legend in his own mind.

[atawa]

Originally posted by StrategicKingMi



The great thing about Civ is you can do so many other things while playing..... have sex with your girlfriend between turns (twice if you have the stamina and are playing me)

This challenge game might take a couple of months if we can only play 3 turns a night

[Alexander's Horse]

One thing slow players fail to take into account is that leaders have to make quick decisions. My impression is that your first intuitive decision is often the right one.

[rah]

Yes, I have more respect for people that make quick decisions (even if they're wrong sometimes) than those that have mental paralysis, or over analyze every tiny decision.

RAH

[Alexander's Horse]

Deity is the slowest player I have ever played.

[Hydey]

Deity may say the same thing about you Horse.