Captain Yang's Crusade - 3 x 2 - Page 4

johndmuller · May 15, 2002, 10:06

Turn 2129 to DataJack Darius of the Angels.

How organized can you get in the stone age anyway?

Darius · May 17, 2002, 11:54

2130 to Flubber.

What's a plenipot?

Flubber · May 17, 2002, 14:05

2130 to johnd

I don't know the word plenipot but I believe it comes from plenipotentiary.

plen·i·po·ten·ti·ar·y Pronunciation Key (pln-p-tnsh-r, -sh-r)
adj.
Invested with or conferring full powers: a plenipotentiary deputy.

n. pl. plen·i·po·ten·ti·ar·ies
A diplomatic agent, such as an ambassador, fully authorized to represent his or her government.

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[Medieval Latin plnipotentirius, from Late Latin plnipotns, plnipotent-, invested with full power : Latin plnus, full; see pel-1 in Indo-European Roots + Latin potns, powerful; see potent.]

johndmuller · May 17, 2002, 21:28

What kind of rules do you guys play with anyway! Whatever happened to giving notice of elections to allow for offline negotiations! I don't suppose anything would have gotten negotiated anyway, but

. . .

2130 to Darius.

Flubber, you are dead meat

1) Seemingly Darius did you a favor by calling the election so now you get to have relations

with yourself;
2) Darius and I have already had encounters with Yang (so he knows where we live) and you make him governor, complete with the free money, etc - a fine thank you to Darius for uniting your factions and an in-your-face to me for picking Yang instead of the the Plenipot Hisself.

His Excellency, the Plenipot John hereby declares that United Planets Sanctions are in effect against both the Green-Faced (are they carsick or something?) Gaians and the Chicken-Yellow Capitalist Vermin Morganites because of their public support for the renegade Yang, who is believed to have been mind controlled by hideous alien lifeforms. In addition to the usual restrictions, nudity and dancing are henceforth prohibited in all forests within the jurisdiction of the Gaians and within Morganite territory, all financial information services and business oriented media productions are henceforth banned and a 10% luxury tax levied on all commodities above subsistence level - subsistence level to be defined by Sister Miriam, who will also enforce these sanctions, financed by the proceeds of the luxury tax. Thus speaks the Plenipot.

Funny, I was going to start a conversation about the Governorship, based on the other 3x2 game I'm in, but I guess it's too late and/or not appropriate anyway. In that game, I'm ahead, but (mainly) because I have the same techs with each faction, I would be both the candidates, so I have never called the elections since that didn't seem right. I was wondering if we should have some rule or understanding about when, if at all, it was OK to have a Guv'ship election. I didn't think we would get there so quickly though, so I hadn't gotten around to it - what did happen anyway, did you find something Darius?

The title "Plenipot" is believed to have originated on old Earth in the early days of the Antarctic Land Rush. In 2118, not long into his first term as US President, Jeb Bush, by means of an historic secret land/energy deal with the Chinese, succeeded in forging a UN consensus to open up Antarctica to exploitation and settlement. By a strange coincidence, his brother Dubya was appointed first Lord Governor General Plenipotentiary of the Southern Marches (the Brits got to name the position). Some said that Jeb was just trying to get brother George clean and sober off his long binge following the paternity suit filed against him by former Clinton Attorney General Janet Reno and the ensuing scandals and ridicule - "If he can't go cold turkey down there," Jeb said, "he'll never be able to do it." As the story unfolds, when Dubya first came to (on the floor of his HQ in DeLong Valley) in Antarctica, his first words (into an open intercom to the press room) were something like this: ...(indecipherable)..., well where the (expletive) is the (expletive) MaryJuanita - bring it onnnnnn - where the (expletive) is it - my (expletive) (expletive) bruthah shaid there'd bee plenny o'pot here (expletive) (expletive), so bring it onnnnn ...(indecipherable)... Of course, from then on he was always Plenipot Bush to the press and eventually to the whole world. Well, you know the rest - the discovery of the first Monolith right there in DeLong Valley somehow made Dubya a world hero ("ya jus sit the (expletive) onn that Slick Willie - put it in ya (expletive) pipe an (expletive) (indecipherable) . . . ") and so in one of those odd quirks of fate, the title Plenipot became greatly revered and taken to the stars in the person of our own UP head.

Flubber · May 17, 2002, 22:07

Great post johnd

first of all, my factions met each other several years ago so darius did me no particular favor. I had also met Yang for that matter. I confess that I was very suprised to see that darius had called the election since I have not met him and found it unlikely that he could have met everybody or had yang trade him the necessary comm links-- so I was very suprised to see an election

I did not post anything about the election this morning as quite frankly I had forgotten about it by the time I finished my other game and went to send them out. It does not make a big difference as I don't know what you could have offered me for my vote in any event.

As for my vote, I would much rather the AI have infiltration on me than a talented human player. Call me paranoid

. I was actually suprised to see Darius voting for you. If this is a sign of a 2 on 1 alliance against me, I can see I will be turfed in short order . . . its hard enough to compete at even odds.
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" Sanctions eh . . . well our alliance of free marketers and environmentalists can weather any storm. "

Darius · May 17, 2002, 22:31

I didn't call the election. I can't, because I haven't met anyone but Yang. I thought that Yang called the election. I know he met one of my factions, but I don't know about the other.

As for voting for John, I was trying to avoid making Yang Governor, as he is already too powerful. I then decided that, like Flubber, I would rather have an AI governor, but it was too late to change my vote.

Flubber · May 17, 2002, 23:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Darius
I didn't call the election. I can't, because I haven't met anyone but Yang. I thought that Yang called the election. I know he met one of my factions, but I don't know about the other.

As for voting for John, I was trying to avoid making Yang Governor, as he is already too powerful. I then decided that, like Flubber, I would rather have an AI governor, but it was too late to change my vote.

I think I may have have heard of this before, where an AI calls an election and the notification makes it seem like a player did.

NO problem on the vote thing. I was actually thinking that you Darius were playing deep diplomatic games . . . you know, trying to poison relations between johnd and I by forcing me to be the spoiler in his quest for governorship

Mongoose · May 17, 2002, 23:28

Same thing happened in Battlefield Earth, remember, Flubber? Q said that Cha Dawn had called the election...the rest of us got a message saying Q had done so.

I think it has something to do with the last human player in the order, on account of the AI moving after all humans. Ai calls, but the deed is ascribed to the last human player instead.

Hmmm. I wonder if that counts against that human's 'one council call every 20 years limit?'

Flubber · May 17, 2002, 23:46

hmmm was that the one?? ( rhetorical-- I wnt back to the Battlefield earth game and checked after I read your message )I'm trying to recall if it happened before as well.

As for the 20 year rule it would have to count as is it not 20 years after anyone called the election ( 10 years if you happen to be gov) ???

Mongoose · May 18, 2002, 00:00

It has been rather a long time since I was in a game late enough to have multiple council options available, but as I remember it:

There are a couple of limitations on council.

1) A council cannot be called for the same purpose any more frequently than every 20 years. (This includes elections for gov.)

2) A given player cannot call more than one council, for any purpose, in any 20 year period. (unless he's gov., then 10 years)

My question in the prior post was whether item two had been invoked by this attributed council call.

Sure hope I'm not misremembering this!

Darius · May 18, 2002, 15:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Flubber
I think I may have have heard of this before, where an AI calls an election and the notification makes it seem like a player did.

I have seen this before as well.

Quote:

I was actually thinking that you Darius were playing deep diplomatic games . . . you know, trying to poison relations between johnd and I by forcing me to be the spoiler in his quest for governorship

I wish I was that deep.

Election results:
Treehugger Flubber-1: 9 votes for Yang
CEO Flubber-2: 12 votes for Yang
Plenipot John: 18 votes for John
Cultivator Johnny Dee: 7 votes for John
Datajack Darius-1: 6 votes for Yang
Messenger Darius-2: 8 votes for John
Chairman Yang: 24 votes for Yang

Total:
Yang 51
John 33

Turn to Flubber.

Flubber · May 19, 2002, 10:43

2131 to johnd

johndmuller · May 19, 2002, 20:03

Turn 2131 to Darius.

I agree that there are funny things that occur w/r elections and the AI factions. In a SMAC game I am in, Morgan, who was an AI faction going after me called an election right after my turn - nevertheless, I was presented with the voting screens just after I hit the "turn complete" button; I don't know if there was any confusion in the following turns, but it was mitigated in any case because I posted the election and sent emails to the other human players

. Darius, you should also know what a stickler I am for this from our game with knowhow2. As for this game I am unconvinced that it would have been impossible for me to influence Flubber, as I had/have considerable information and resources to offer, not to mention promises, but we will never know, although the secretiveness about meeting himself and Yang suggest a certain paranoia, which might have won out on the Morganic greed I would have been playing to. Well, enough bellyaching; clearly, we need a firm hand (such as the Plenipot's) on the tiller of State to prevent future misadventures of this sort from occurring

.

I think that Googlie must have had a different idea of the initial setup than we did as he must have given Yang all our commlinks somehow for an election to have taken place. I don't remember for sure, but I thought that I only had the apparent links for the human players myself. I don't remember whether or not I traded Yang's links to my other faction after I met him, but if we all did that, it might somehow have allowed him to have gotten commlinks through some bug/feature.

So in any case, we have 20 years to figure out if we want to form any policy toward elections in the future. With Lal in the game and the Empath Guild as a wildcard, it is not guaranteed that one of us will have both top positions, so there may still be contested elections even after we (hopefully) get ahead of Yang.

Flubber · May 19, 2002, 21:31

johnd

I agree that prior notice of elections should be done. On my end, I simply forgot to post anything and apologize for that but I doubt you could have influenced my vote. Early infiltration is very very big so you would have most likely been unable to sway me. I don't care if the AI is governor as they never seem to know what to do with the info (and I actually believe that they might have automatic infiltration anyway)

Paranoia--probably-- both meetings were relatively recent events that I hadn't gotten around to commenting on. I suspect that googlie placed each team in a way that they could meet each other and probably seeded yang units around the world to make it easier for us to meet him.

AS for me, I did trade Yangs comm between my team so he has met all of my team. I have no problem with Yang as governor but will be more than willing to hear your offers for future elections. Both my nations believe in efficiency and trade donchaknow .

Darius · May 20, 2002, 06:30

Turn to Flubber.

I can't read the preceding posts right now (getting ready for work) but will take it all in later.

Darius · May 20, 2002, 10:41

I agree that notice of elections should be given. However in this case when the AI sprang the election on me by surprise, I thought it fair for us all to be surprised so I did not notify you.

At the end of my Coven (my second faction) turn this morning, a message came up saying "The Angels have lost base so-and-so to the Hive." Never having played two factions before, it took me a moment to realize that the Angels is me. It was odd to get a message from myself that way.

I had established a new base during my Angels turn. There were no Hive units in sight, so I left the base undefended, with 0 turns to complete a garrison. I guess 0 turns is all it takes for the Hive to swoop in from nowhere.

Flubber · May 20, 2002, 13:31

Hey darius-- its been about 6 hours since your "turn sent " message and the turn is not here yet (probably bouncing off a server in Murmansk )-- Please resend-- you can also copy it to flubber41@hotmail.com to see if it shows up there any faster.

Darius · May 20, 2002, 17:15

I got an "Undeliverable" message for your regular address after 6 hours. Resent to both addresses.

Flubber · May 20, 2002, 17:24

odd as I just played the original send and just saw the resend come in

2132 to johnd

johndmuller · May 21, 2002, 00:00

2132 to DJ Darius.

Quote:

I thought it fair for us all to be surprised so I did not notify you.

I am taking this as a joke.

Just one more time to kick the dead horse

(there really should be a symbol for this). (on soapbox) I would like to point out that one of the benefits of the PK faction is the votes * 2 in the governor's elections - which benefit you effectively negated by not notifying me of the election when it was called - would it be "fair" to act accordingly if "surprised" by the Roz bug?

Googlie · May 21, 2002, 02:11

Quote:

Originally posted by johndmuller
I think that Googlie must have had a different idea of the initial setup than we did as he must have given Yang all our commlinks somehow for an election to have taken place. I don't remember for sure, but I thought that I only had the apparent links for the human players myself. I don't remember whether or not I traded Yang's links to my other faction after I met him, but if we all did that, it might somehow have allowed him to have gotten commlinks through some bug/feature.

I confirm that Yang did not have any of your commlinks at the start. I gave each of you the commlinks for your two factions (and a Treaty and Pact - yes, I did misunderstand the set-up)

I don't know how he managed to call an election so soon - are you sure he doesn't have the Empath Guild built (I didn't disable it, as I ususally do now in PBEMs)

He did have routes to get to all of you (and you to him) so perhaps he probed? If he got to the wreckage first, he'd know exactly where to go.

But I confess I do find it strange

Googlie

Flubber · May 21, 2002, 02:46

each of us has confirmed that one of our factions has met yang and I know I traded the comm between my two factions. If the others did the same well there should be no mystery.

johndmuller · May 21, 2002, 11:16

Well I probably traded the commlinks to my other faction, but I/that faction definitely didn't use them even if it had them, so I would think that that "shouldn't" count as Yang having that faction's commlink (although I wouldn't be surprised if it did anyway). I know that the concept of "met" is sometimes different for people and the program - in a different game, my future pactmate "met" me via a unity chopper which was adjacent to my base and/or unit and the contact witnessed by both sides at various times. Nevertheless, the game didn't seem to think that we had met as my pactmate didn't seem to be able to trade my commlinks to third parties (nor I his, but that didn't matter since I was stuck on an island); in that game all the human players showed up on the commlinks, but I think that is common, if not always the case in PBEMS. Possibly it matters whether or not the game was created with the Scenario Editor (and if with the SE, how things are set up) or just started randomly with the regular mechanism, but I think not.

As for the Empath Guild, Yang didn't show as having it when I looked (it only showed Yang building the Command Nexus

IIRC). It is of course possible to get the commlinks from pods, but while it wouldn't be unreasonable to get 1 (of course getting the eventual missing one is less probably), but to get all 3 of our other faction's links from pods would be a bit unlikely.

Mongoose · May 21, 2002, 11:27

Commlinks go both ways. When you pop an AI commlink in a pod, that AI can contact you, too.

Likewise when a commlink is traded. Giving AI Hive's link to, say Morgan, also gives Morgan to Hive.

I'm pretty sure that human commlinks, when traded, do not generate the reciprocal knowledge. You would have to test that with the alpha.txt switch set to...whatever the setting is that denies humans initial comm capability with each other in MP games.

Darius · May 21, 2002, 11:44

Quote:

Originally posted by johndmuller
I would like to point out that one of the benefits of the PK faction is the votes * 2 in the governor's elections - which benefit you effectively negated by not notifying me of the election when it was called

I just meant that I did not get a chance to "negotiate" prior to casting my vote, and neither did you. You still presumably got double votes, I did nothing to negate that.

From now on, I will be sure to notify everyone if Yang springs another election on us, even though one of my factions will not benefit from such notification.

I have the turn, and will (hopefully) play it this evening.