it's here: 1.21F PATCH DETAILS

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
A couple points:

- The culturally linked starting locations option has been moved to the player setup screen since having it as a preference was pointless being that changing it during the game had no effect.

- Issues with upgrading and fortifying have been fixed (I think that was missing from the readme). If units were upgraded while fortified they will stay fortified after upgrading.

OK! Great!

Damn, I might just install this game again

[dunk]

* Mods no longer show gray lines on Science Advisor screen.

I love it. WOO HOO!

This isn't sarcasm.

[Allemand]

Only one I don't like is the map size changes. Don't know why anyone would want smaller maps. But looks like there is a workaround.

Appears that we can now reuse our random game maps, which is good. The editor-generated maps are not as good as the game-generated ones.

[Jaybe]

* Fixed bug involving extra movement costs if the unit can't advance after combat.

I see this one as being a very dramatic change for all blitz units, a fix that I have been clamoring for since last year.
OTH, it is now relatively rare to find an obsolete unit anymore.

[fezick31]

ah, that make sme feel better about the culture starts
thanks mike.

Has anyone ever had a civ restart after it dies? I've never seen it.

[Shadowlord]

Originally posted by panag
okay , so , lets get this correct , ya cant restrict movement in the mountains , but ya could give a movement bonus , or take it away on the 3 different sea squares ? , bong , someting seems not right with it , why not keep mountain restriction and ad the sea option .

They didn't take away the mountain restriction. Got it?

Originally posted by panag
and how can they know if one uses it or not , their spyware cant be that good , was there a poll or so , ....................????????
i did not see it

Excuse me?

[Shadowlord]

I've seen one restart. In my current game, I wiped the Russians out from the northern end of the continent in the ancient era, and they magically got a new city on the south end of the continent, and weren't "wiped out". I checked the replay, I'm pretty sure it "respawned" them, and it probably only respawns them if there's an empty spot available for a new city somewhere.

[Shadowlord]

Originally posted by panag
one has just spend a couple dys on a map and on a mod , .....then that person starts to play , and play , its a 255x255 map , so about a week later the player sees certainly that he forget something , in his rush , .........mamamiaaaaa

so , a cheat would do a lot here , Firaxis ,..........

That would be funny to anyone he complained to, yes, but not a good reason for Firaxis to add cheats to Civ III....

Originally posted by panag
hmmmm , so foot / mouted , will we see units like a catapult moving over mountains ? , fun , must be nice with tha snow , .....

?

Originally posted by panag
what about corruption , sometimes one can not build 2 wonders , at least one of them , you give for example both "lowers corruption"

Who said you had to build two wonders in your cities to lower corruption? He said building courthouses and police stations will combat corruption etc better. If it takes 80 turns to build them, it's still possible, and you can rush build them anyhow.

[ixnay]

Thanks for the clarifications. It just keeps getting better...

[Grrr]

Could they make two boxes for map size in the game setup screen? It couldn't be that hard, could it?

[Panag]

hi ,

leaders ; generaly speaking the first army you build is "regular" , with the military academy it becomes "regular" , however i never seen an army (that first one ) become regular after battle or even "elite" .

huh , i never seen a leader in the "ancient ages"


have a nice day

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Shadowlord
I've seen one restart. In my current game, I wiped the Russians out from the northern end of the continent in the ancient era, and they magically got a new city on the south end of the continent, and weren't "wiped out". I checked the replay, I'm pretty sure it "respawned" them, and it probably only respawns them if there's an empty spot available for a new city somewhere.

Yeah, it happened to me too in my last game (or what I then thought was my last game...) I spent the better part of a saturday kicking some french butt. And when I´m finished and want to inspect my french ridden world there´s a new friggin french city on another continent!! How annoying isn´t that?

[Hagbart]

It can't be that hard to include a minimap in the editor!

[Panag]

Who said you had to build two wonders in your cities to lower corruption? He said building courthouses and police stations will combat corruption etc better. If it takes 80 turns to build them, it's still possible, and you can rush build them anyhow. [/QUOTE]

hi ,


no one said anything , i am just saying that if you give certain options to 2 wonders you some times have problems , it seems that certain wonders can not combine certain things (twice) like , for example "lowers corruption" or reduces war weariness , .......

sometimes if you give those values to 2 wonders or 3 or more , you can not build wonder no 2 or 3 or 4 , etc , ......

have a nice day

[ACooper]

Originally posted by Hagbart
It can't be that hard to include a minimap in the editor!

How many times are you going to repeat this?

[fezick31]

Originally posted by Shadowlord
I've seen one restart. In my current game, I wiped the Russians out from the northern end of the continent in the ancient era, and they magically got a new city on the south end of the continent, and weren't "wiped out". I checked the replay, I'm pretty sure it "respawned" them, and it probably only respawns them if there's an empty spot available for a new city somewhere.

ah, ok, i've seen that, and i figured it was a bug. Silly me

[Allemand]

A zoom feature would be nice for the editor, too.

[Hagbart]

Originally posted by ACooper

How many times are you going to repeat this?

I just want the Firaxians to see it!

[ColdFever]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
Note, however, that any changes to the default rules will not be included in your modified rules unless you manually make those changes to your mods (this has been the case with all previous versions as well).

Hi Mike, thanks for your very helpful mod comments, I have one suggestion:

As it is not always easy to find the changes in the default rules (often undocumented), would it be possible to write a kind of "Civ3EditorExport" tool that writes the settings of a BIC-files down into a readable form? This way it would become very easy to track the changes, for example like that:

Civ3EditorExport old.BIC >old.txt
Civ3EditorExport new.BIC >new.txt
anydifftool old.txt new.txt >diff.txt

So we easily could
- find differences between official game versions (for example 1.17 to 1.21)
- find differences between official game versions and mods

[John Paul Jones]

* Updated water unit movement to take into account the cost of
the terrain type.

Ok , this could be good for scenarios and could allow like erh...sea fungus or stuff but as i understand it all water types have a move-rate of one anyway. Won't this just slow down sea-unit path-finding ?

[Panag]

hi ,


hmmm , mini map in the editor , what about a better Zoom , huh , with 2 - 3 - 4 magnification steps .

have a nice day


Firaxians , are you there , beep , beep , ...................

[Hagbart]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,


hmmm , mini map in the editor , what about a better Zoom , huh , with 2 - 3 - 4 magnification steps .

have a nice day


Firaxians , are you there , beep , beep , ...................

Yes I want that too!

[Panag]

hi ,


Firaxis , please , increase "operantional range" and other similar "limited" values , concerning the units in the editor .
thanks in advance !!!


have a nice day

[planetfall]

Originally posted by ColdFever


Hi Mike, thanks for your very helpful mod comments, I have one suggestion:

As it is not always easy to find the changes in the default rules (often undocumented), would it be possible to write a kind of "Civ3EditorExport" tool that writes the settings of a BIC-files down into a readable form? This way it would become very easy to track the changes, for example like that:

Civ3EditorExport old.BIC >old.txt
Civ3EditorExport new.BIC >new.txt
anydifftool old.txt new.txt >diff.txt

So we easily could
- find differences between official game versions (for example 1.17 to 1.21)
- find differences between official game versions and mods

Fantastic idea, especially after spending last night trying to copy the current bic settings into a 123 file so I would be ready for 1.21. Please make it easier for us. This would be a great tool to have. Even if all that is created is a structured text file. Then we can always use unix/linux tools to diff the two files and see just the field entries that have changed.

If that can't be done, how about an editor readme included in the patch listing in one section the bic changes with each patch.

I know documentation is a pain, I hate to do it myself; but it sure makes it easier for others.

[Hagbart]

Will it now be possible to make flat maps?
That would be cool!

[chiefpaco]

About the abandoning cities, I'm not clear on how it works yet. If it was instant, wouldn't a "capture & abandon" be better than a raze?

[planetfall]

Hopefully this was for cities you planted in the wrong place and want to abandon. If works sure beats trying to force a settler from a pop 2 city or a worker from size one. That method seldom worked.

[Spiffor]

I'm very happy with the newpatch, esp. with all the editor issues :

* Wonders now work with the government specific field.

* Editor: Exposed AI to AI trade rate.
* Editor: Updated ERA_NONE techs to work as expected (you can
never research them and they don't impede era advancement but they can be assigned as free techs).

I love this : you can now give specific techs to Civs and forbid them to trade (by setting the trade rate to 0). It reminds me of the "after the apocalypse" scenario for Civ2

* Editor: Displayed active player on status bar.
* Editor: Setting active player to a barbarian tribe causes
placed barbarian camps to use the specified barbarian tribe.

Cool, we could have huge barbarian empires, on maps such as Imperialism. I like it. Looks like the editor becomes more and more a scenario editor, not only a rules editor. There is still much to do though.

* Editor: Improved starting locations for scenarios only.

What does it mean precisely ? I doubt this is a fixed starting position, it would have been advertised much more

[Zoid]

[Hagbart mode] Hey you know what would be really cool. A minimap in the editor!! [/Hagbart mode]

Jesus H Christ, how about an eqally annoying e-mail spam fest to Firaxis. I´m sure they give it to you then...

[Panag]

hi ,


"start" ; what about the fact that one should be capable to chose the number of starting units ; for the human player and/or for the AI and /or for both ? maybe even for each civ something different , of course there should be a limit , lets say 8 or so .

example ;
Indians , 2 settlers , 1 worker , 2 defensive units ,
Greece , 1 settler , 2 def u , 2 offensive units ,
America , 1 settler , 2 workers , 2 scouts , 2 def u
, .............

just imagine , taking in mind the UU , unique units and all , that would change a lot !


have a nice day