Theory of Evolution Should have never been a part of this game! - Page 2

Asher · April 17, 2002, 16:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
It is also humerous because it is even called a Theory at all. Its a hypothisis at best.

Your whole post is humourous at best because you don't even know what a "theory" is, apparently.

Carry on, this is one of the best trolls I've seen in a while.

It's really scary if you truly believe that.

Can someone tell me who created God, anyway?

danimal · April 17, 2002, 16:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
Evolution does not take place while a creature is alive! Some chimpanzee wasn't wandering around, transformed into a human because it would be better for the chimp, die, and leave behind fossils. That's not how evolution works.

But during reproduction, genes can be mixed up and in most cases will either kill the creature or have no effect. But every once in awhile a new organism is born that benefits from the mutation. And slowly, over millions of years, this small benefit will become more widespread and more advanced. And there most certainly are fossil records of better creatures appearing after creatures that were not... better.

what a load of unscientific crap having no proof....zero...none...except speculation and myth

Show me concrete evidence of one scientifically proven example of evolution..except maybe for your brain evolved from a horse's rear end.

Draco aka Se7eN · April 17, 2002, 16:59

Good post Fezick31

Lorizael LOL

I have read a lot of books on evolution if you wish to get technical so be it.

Lorizael your example is a part of Microevelution, that does not prove evelution. Microevelolution can be proved indeed.

Im stating that Macroevolution is false, the evolution of one creature into another. If you wish to argue how old the world is please ask. And dont think carbon dating is a fool proof method of dating. It is not scientific to rely on only one method to prove a theory. There are countless scientific ways to prove that the earth is not as old as you think.

loinburger · April 17, 2002, 17:00

Quote:

Originally posted by danimal
Evolution remains a hypothesis...just like creation.

Evolution has evidentiary support, creationism does not.

ixnay · April 17, 2002, 17:02

Quote:

Originally posted by danimal
What an idiotic statement...Copernicus theories are scientific facts!! Evolution remains a hypothesis...just like creation. However, I will place my wager with Pascal...I will bet on the watch maker.

You know, when Copernicus formulated his theories, they were hypotheses at first, later to be verified by facts...and there certainly is a good deal of evidence supporting evolution.

Arrian · April 17, 2002, 17:02

Quote:

Can someone tell me who created God, anyway?

We did

-Arrian

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:04

Quote:

We did

Are you sure?

I would have thought he evolved from a higher primate, such as an Ape.

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:08

Pascal's Wager is akin to saying you should never leave your house for fear of being mauled by a bear. It's better to be safe than sorry, after all.

What does God think of people who attend church and are religious for fear of his retribution anyway?

And what does that tell us about who God is? What kind of egomaniac is he if he wants us to pray and worship him? What a bastard.

jep · April 17, 2002, 17:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian

We did

-Arrian

No, God is dead. And we killed him.

Draco aka Se7eN · April 17, 2002, 17:08

Where is this proof of Microevolution? Show me any fossle evidence of evolution!

Please educate me. With out fossle evidence how can you support evolution?

Random Passerby · April 17, 2002, 17:10

Draco's point is fundamentally correct: Darwin's theories on the origin of species remain unverified and likely unverifiable. We do know that heredity exists, and we know that species do change and adapt over generations based on local conditions and favorable combination of hereditary traits. We do not know that humans evolved from monkeys, or that the majority of life on earth actually evolved from earlier, (generally) simpler life. Instead we can only look at present conditions and infer backwards, which is hardly set-in-stone proof.

That said, however, I agree with the inclusion of this as a wonder. Civilization's wonders are judged for their ability to impress and influence the world, directly or indirectly. As has been pointed out, Darwin's ideas have heavily influenced scientists in all fields--not because they all accept Darwin's proposed origin of species (with or without proof), but because of the sheer elegance of his proposed process of selection. Propogate effective traits; eliminate ineffective ones. This simple scheme has proven to make for accurate, effective, and self-sustaining models for basically any sort of life process.

As to creationism, the intuitive proof depends on whether you're assuming a finite reality or an infinite, all-encompassing reality (even one that doesn't necessarily encompass all at once, at least not in terms of our reckoning of time). In an infinite universe, it stands to reason that everything--no matter how unlikely--is probably going to happen at some point. Including us.

Caligastia · April 17, 2002, 17:12

The problem with biblical creationists is that they wont accept any scientific evidence that contradicts what the bible says.

To me its obvious that there is a creator, but I believe evolution was directed by God and his "Life Carriers".

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:13

Quote:

To me its obvious that there is a creator

But who created the creator?

How is that an obvious thing?

It's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.

loinburger · April 17, 2002, 17:13

Quote:

Originally posted by danimal
Now the Universe is far more complex than any damn wirst watch..but some people chose to believe everything just lined up one day and the universe was set into motion by chance with no plan, design or creator. To them I say....look for the watchmaker.

I knew I'd seen this argument somewhere before! It's Number 45 on the Comprehensive List of Reasons to Believe in God:

45. ARGUMENT FROM MASS PRODUCTION

(1) Barbie dolls were created.
(2) If Barbie dolls were created, then so were
trees.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

Provost Harrison · April 17, 2002, 17:14

Draco, I have discussed this in the past, but essentially, you know nothing about this issue, even though you think you do. I am not going to go into the various proofs of microevolution or macroevolution again, check through the apolyton archives on this matter. Essentially, you are arguing without even looking at the facts of the issue. It is known as 'being brainwashed'.

By the way, I am more than willing to go head-to-head with you on a evolutionist debate. You, some snivelling teenage know-nothing, and me, Oxford graduate in Biochemistry. Get out there, read some stuff, and learn something. There is more to the world and reality than your little church

Provost Harrison · April 17, 2002, 17:18

Quite frankly Draco, you're just making up some of your arguments as you go along. Because never have I seen such a load of flawed bullsh*t. Evolution is stronger than ever. We have moved on from the pure days of Darwinian evolution, we have Neodarwinism, made complete with our modern knowledge of genetics and molecular biology.

Really, I could go on to you about this all day, but it would be a folly. You are not prepared to listen to others, others who may know a lot, lot more about a subject than you do.

But just answer me one small question...where do you live?

Caligastia · April 17, 2002, 17:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

But who created the creator?

How is that an obvious thing?

It's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.

When I look at the world around me I find it difficult to imagine it all just happening by chance. Life has a design so intricate that it could only come from an intelligent creator IMO.

If you cant see that then I cant show you, you have to see it for yourself.

Arrian · April 17, 2002, 17:20

Quote:

Originally posted by jep

No, God is dead. And we killed him.

Well, since we created Him, I suppose we could have killed Him too. The human giveth... and the human taketh away.

loinburger · April 17, 2002, 17:21

This has also been debated to death on this OT thread, where every single creationist either drifted quietly away or took an infinite regress when confronted with the evidence against them. I'd repost some of Ethelred's links, but I have no confidence in their actually being looked at; anybody who cares enough to find them in the OT thread cares enough to actually look at them, as far as I'm concerned.

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Caligastia
When I look at the world around me I find it difficult to imagine it all just happening by chance. Life has a design so intricate that it could only come from an intelligent creator IMO.

If you cant see that then I cant show you, you have to see it for yourself.

Yes, but who created the creator?
Did he appear by chance?

And if he created this world, why wouldn't he create a perfect world? Why would his followers be split on what to believe?

Are Muslims wrong, because they don't believe in your creator?
Are you wrong, because you don't believe what they believe in?

For anyone with a logical mind it should be completely obvious that religions have no real base. It's amazing how religions change over time to try to stay somewhat socially acceptable. Would God want it that way?

What a crock.

That is all. *poof*

Draco aka Se7eN · April 17, 2002, 17:22

The problem with Evolutionists is that they cant accept any scientific evidence that proves evolution false! Most evolutionists are grossly educated in falsehoods or are biased and will find any reason not to believe in god.

Look im not here because i believe in god. Im arguing because evolution is scientifically false.

Caligastia

You believe in Thestic Evolution. Unfortunetly because Evolution is false that doesnt hold eaither.

Asher

It is logical that their is a creater. On this planet we see creation all around us. When has anything complex ever spontaniously evolved or come about by accedent.

If any of you had any idea how complex even the simplest single celled organism is then perhaps you could put aside your biased believes and open your eyes to the facts.

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
Asher

It is logical that their is a creater. On this planet we see creation all around us. When has anything complex ever spontaniously evolved or come about by accedent.

If any of you had any idea how complex even the simplest single celled organism is then perhaps you could put aside your biased believes and open your eyes to the facts.

WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?!

Someone answer that for me.

You toss it out was impossible for the world to naturally occur, but it's possible for a super-human creator to magically appear and snap his fingers, creating an imperfect world?

Why would you worship such an *******? If I created this world, I'd have done a MUCH better job.

Provost Harrison · April 17, 2002, 17:26

Draco, scurry away and present me with this 'scientific evidence' and I will debunk it. Deal?

fezick31 · April 17, 2002, 17:27

Quote:

Originally posted by loinburger

So you reject an entire scientific theory based solely on the fact that you want to feel special? How marvelous.

That is hardly the reason. The argument of evolution/creationism is not about what has happened. It is about what willhappen. The whole point comes down to an argument of what happens when you die. If Evolution is true, then when you die, that's it, goodbye, no more. (and if that is the case, why in the world waste your time on these forum, go out and do something valuable with the few short years you have), However, if creationism is true, then there is something beyond death.

Caligastia · April 17, 2002, 17:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

Yes, but who created the creator?
Did he appear by chance?

And if he created this world, why wouldn't he create a perfect world? Why would his followers be split on what to believe?

Are Muslims wrong, because they don't believe in your creator?
Are you wrong, because you don't believe what they believe in?

For anyone with a logical mind it should be completely obvious that religions have no real base. It's amazing how religions change over time to try to stay somewhat socially acceptable. Would God want it that way?

What a crock.

That is all. *poof*

Nobody created the creator, the creator exists outside time and space as we know it.

God did not create a perfect world because if he did it would be a world of robots with no free will. God created us in order to experience what it is like to be us.

Muslims are not wrong, and christians are not wrong, all religions have some element of truth in their teaching. The trick is to sort out what is truth and what isnt.

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:29

There is no afterlife. That much is patently obvious.

How would anyone know there is an afterlife? They're DEAD when they go there.

The concept of afterlife was created so the leaders of the cults would have a way of getting people to do what they say and follow their morals. If you don't do this or that, you will BURN IN HELL. If you do do this or that, you will relax peacefully in heaven for all of eternity.

I really do wonder how people can honestly believe that.

No one can go to the afterlife and come back, even if it was true, so how would you know about it? It's the figment of someone's imagination.

Caligastia · April 17, 2002, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

WHO CREATED THE CREATOR?!

Someone answer that for me.

You toss it out was impossible for the world to naturally occur, but it's possible for a super-human creator to magically appear and snap his fingers, creating an imperfect world?

Why would you worship such an *******? If I created this world, I'd have done a MUCH better job.

What is the point of creating a perfect world?

Perfection does not come overnight, it comes from long, long, long experience.

jep · April 17, 2002, 17:31

I don't know what's the funniest thing about this

. I've got a few choices:

1. That you think the theory of evolution is wrong.
2. That (ignoring the point of whether it is correct or not), you think the theory of evolution is insignificant.
3. That you pick another theory which is known to flawed as its alternative. This point certainly demonstrates a general lack of advanced scientific knowledge.

Of course, you're right on one point: the theory of evolution has never been experimentally tested in the way a typical scientific theory would be. Of course, this really is because origin theories are completely untestable. That doesn't mean you can't collect evidence in support of a theory however, and there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that indirectly supports evolution. If evolution was so flawed, how was it able to overcome the massive opposition to its acceptance, first in the scientific world and later to the general public?

Of course, your argument in favour of intelligent creation is so flawed, it's laughable. Let me summarize: 'There is no scientific [i.e., experimental] evidence in favour of evolution, therefore evolution is flawed. Since the only other altnerative is intelligent creation, intelligent creation must be what really happened.' Sorry to break it to you, but the lack of experimental evidence in support of evolution does not imply that evolution is incorrect, your reductio ad absurdum is utter crap. Sure, evolution may not have the same kind of experimental verification that quantum mechanics has, but I'd like to point out that intelligent creation extremely little evidence in support of it and it doesn't even fit the facts very well. Of course, the fact that it doesn't fit the known facts well, and evolution does just lends added credence to our notion that evolution is correct: there are no other theories that fit what we already know!

Other points: there is a fundamental difference between biblical creation and intelligent creation (which is what you're proposing, it seems), and you have to be a real idiot to mistake the two. This also seems to apply to you however, so the evidence fits.

I find the way you suggest relativity as a 'proven' alternative though. Good work

. Only one problem: relativity is known to be flawed - it is inconsistent with quantum mechanics which is accepted to be the 'better' theory of the two. Relativity is simply an incredibly accurate approximation of reality. Nice try, though.

Asher · April 17, 2002, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Caligastia
Nobody created the creator, the creator exists outside time and space as we know it.

So this is acceptable, but it's not acceptable to say the world exists in THIS time and space as we know it, without a creator?

That is completely and utterly illogical.

Quote:

God did not create a perfect world because if he did it would be a world of robots with no free will. God created us in order to experience what it is like to be us.

Huh?
A perfect world would allow free will, but no one would kill by default and everyone would be tolerant of those around them.

What kind of masochist are you?

Quote:

Muslims are not wrong, and christians are not wrong, all religions have some element of truth in their teaching. The trick is to sort out what is truth and what isnt.

Is that why atheism is becoming more and more popular each day as people learn more about the world?

Provost Harrison · April 17, 2002, 17:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Draco aka Se7eN
The problem with Evolutionists is that they cant accept any scientific evidence that proves evolution false! Most evolutionists are grossly educated in falsehoods or are biased and will find any reason not to believe in god.

Do you really know what you are talking about? Do you have any idea of the amount of supporting evidence for evolution, and the manipulation of scientific principles, incorrectly, to produce 'creationist science'. Like how they use the 2nd law of thermodynamics to state evolution can't occur. Without really understanding the principle thoroughly.

Quote:

Look im not here because i believe in god. Im arguing because evolution is scientifically false.

Again incorrect, totally incorrect.

Quote:

If any of you had any idea how complex even the simplest single celled organism is then perhaps you could put aside your biased believes and open your eyes to the facts.

Better than most taking into account my educational background. But the question is, do you have any concept about how a single cell organism works? Do you have any idea of it's molecular biology, it's mechanisms of reproduction, it's metabolic pathways, translation of RNA into protein, how DNA mutation effects change, natural selection, do you really know? I presume not. Believe me, it is very complicated, and it is well documented how mutations work.

Believe me kid, the theory of evolution is no longer thought of as a vague theory. It's effectively fact.