PATCH v1.21f bugs and issues. - Page 13

Panag · June 13, 2002, 17:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

I think it's just fine as it is frankly. If an Expansionist civ could get free techs in more than the ancient era, it would be so far ahead of all the rest, the other civs wouldn't stand a chance.

hi ,

okay , tech up to second era , units , once in a while , ....

have a nice day

Willem · June 13, 2002, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

okay , tech up to second era , units , once in a while , ....

have a nice day

Even still, that would be way to much of an advantage. I always play Expansionist civs, Americans to be precise, and I'm usually far ahead by the time I reach the Middle Ages. Only then do the other civs start catching up. If I recieved techs in the Middle Ages as well, the game would no longer be a challenge, since I'd be so far ahead. I'd have Rifleman and Cavalry on the field, when the rest of the civs were just starting to get Pikemen and Knights. I'd easily be one era ahead of any civ that wasn't Expansionist as well.

Panag · June 13, 2002, 18:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Even still, that would be way to much of an advantage. I always play Expansionist civs, Americans to be precise, and I'm usually far ahead by the time I reach the Middle Ages. Only then do the other civs start catching up. If I recieved techs in the Middle Ages as well, the game would no longer be a challenge, since I'd be so far ahead. I'd have Rifleman and Cavalry on the field, when the rest of the civs were just starting to get Pikemen and Knights. I'd easily be one era ahead of any civ that wasn't Expansionist as well.

hi ,

Willem , on what level , and on what default level for the AI , .....

have a nice day

Willem · June 13, 2002, 18:28

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

Willem , on what level , and on what default level for the AI , .....

have a nice day

Well I always play on Regent, so that's what I'm basing my projections on. As American, I'm usually 4-6 techs ahead of any non-expansionist civ by the time I hit the Middle Ages. So it would be about double that if I were allowed to get them in Middle Ages as well. Which pretty much puts me into the Industrial Era just after the rest make it to the Middle Ages.

Panag · June 13, 2002, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Well I always play on Regent, so that's what I'm basing my projections on. As American, I'm usually 4-6 techs ahead of any non-expansionist civ by the time I hit the Middle Ages. So it would be about double that if I were allowed to get them in Middle Ages as well. Which pretty much puts me into the Industrial Era just after the rest make it to the Middle Ages.

hi ,

same , only barbarian units are rifleman , advanced ; infantry and sea unit destroyer , ....

AI default level ; deity , ...

have a nice day / night

candidgamera · June 13, 2002, 18:38

Appologies in advance if this has been asked and discussed at length but:

Per Willem have found the expansionist civs so much of an advantage that I've changed the mod I play with to turn it off for the civs I'm playing with, the free techs gotten just put you so far ahead. However, when first trying without expansionist, as Americans, looks like it might be hard coded no matter what you do in the editor: Am still getting no barbs, just workers, warriors, money, and lots of tech. Going back in to turn the tech rate down now to start over, see if that helps. Also don't play with scouts now either, convinced they are like magic on their own for getting results from huts, even if you editor them to availability to non expansionist. I juiced up the warrior to all terrain as roads to help out on early exploration, big worlds.

Playing: 5 civs: Russians, Germans, Americans, England, Japan. on regent. world size 230 wide x 210 tall.

Is this a known glitch, short answer will suffice?

Panag · June 13, 2002, 18:41

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera
Appologies in advance if this has been asked and discussed at length but:

Per Willem have found the expansionist civs so much of an advantage that I've changed the mod I play with to turn it off for the civs I'm playing with, the free techs gotten just put you so far ahead. However, when first trying without expansionist, as Americans, looks like it might be hard coded no matter what you do in the editor: Am still getting no barbs, just workers, warriors, money, and lots of tech. Going back in to turn the tech rate down now to start over, see if that helps. Also don't play with scouts now either, convinced they are like magic on their own for getting results from huts, even if you editor them to availability to non expansionist. I juiced up the warrior to all terrain as roads to help out on early exploration, big worlds.

Playing: 5 civs: Russians, Germans, Americans, England, Japan. on regent. world size 230 wide x 210 tall.

Is this a known glitch, short answer will suffice?

hi ,

no barbs , .....

have a nice day

candidgamera · June 13, 2002, 18:51

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

no barbs , .....

have a nice day

set on restless, and no barbs after at least 6-10 huts, just good stuff.

Willem · June 13, 2002, 18:52

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera
Appologies in advance if this has been asked and discussed at length but:

Per Willem have found the expansionist civs so much of an advantage that I've changed the mod I play with to turn it off for the civs I'm playing with, the free techs gotten just put you so far ahead. However, when first trying without expansionist, as Americans, looks like it might be hard coded no matter what you do in the editor: Am still getting no barbs, just workers, warriors, money, and lots of tech. Going back in to turn the tech rate down now to start over, see if that helps. Also don't play with scouts now either, convinced they are like magic on their own for getting results from huts, even if you editor them to availability to non expansionist. I juiced up the warrior to all terrain as roads to help out on early exploration, big worlds.

Playing: 5 civs: Russians, Germans, Americans, England, Japan. on regent. world size 230 wide x 210 tall.

Is this a known glitch, short answer will suffice?

It sounds like just using Scouts themselves are what gives the Expansionist it's advantages. Someone else pointed that out as well.

As far as getting free techs being a huge advantage, keep in mind that it's only good for the first era. All it does basically is counter the AI tech trading. By the time I get to the Middle Ages, the other civs catch up to me, sometimes even pass me. Getting those free techs just gives me a head start towards getting Pikeman and Knights. It doesn't do much else after that.

Panag · June 13, 2002, 18:57

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera

set on restless, and no barbs after at least 6-10 huts, just good stuff.

hi ,

have you seen any at all , ....

what is your barb setting , ...

have a nice day

candidgamera · June 13, 2002, 19:47

per above, last post: restless am pretty sure, certainly not none.

Panag · June 13, 2002, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera
per above, last post: restless am pretty sure, certainly not none.

hi ,

maybe its to early , ....

however there have been people who saw no barbs for a 1000 years , .......

have a nice day

Mad_Hatter13x · June 14, 2002, 11:58

This has happened before, and It might just be part of the game, but it still isn't cool (Pisses me off). I am a democracy, practically all of my citizens are happy, but all of a sudden, my civ went into anarchy without me doing so. I have been at war for a long time, i think that that might be why? Why does this happen (I don't know the outcome gov't yet)

Mad Hatter

candidgamera · June 14, 2002, 12:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad_Hatter13x
This has happened before, and It might just be part of the game, but it still isn't cool (Pisses me off). I am a democracy, practically all of my citizens are happy, but all of a sudden, my civ went into anarchy without me doing so. I have been at war for a long time, i think that that might be why? Why does this happen (I don't know the outcome gov't yet)

Mad Hatter

Think that unhappy democracy still works like civ2 - a chance of revolt with unhappy cities. Sounds like you suffered from catastrophic war weariness - even with all the wonders for happiness and 8 luxuries have had cities go unhappy on their own after a period of war of say 10 turns in late game.

panang: started another one, same thing happening, getting barbarians now, but only from spontaneous encampments, never from huts. Have to try out the other non-expansionist civs to be sure. I am playing with steriod civs: Americans have industrious, commercial, and scientific. Can't see how that affects hut behavior though.

Willem · June 14, 2002, 13:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad_Hatter13x
This has happened before, and It might just be part of the game, but it still isn't cool (Pisses me off). I am a democracy, practically all of my citizens are happy, but all of a sudden, my civ went into anarchy without me doing so. I have been at war for a long time, i think that that might be why? Why does this happen (I don't know the outcome gov't yet)

Mad Hatter

I'm guessing you're allowing your Governor to control the cities' moods. Not a bad idea if you're at war with a Democracy, but it can backfire, as you've obviously noticed. Although you're citizens appear to be happy, it's only because your Governor has been making more and more Entertainers. The War Weariness is still building up, and at a certain point, there's nothing you can do about it, short of making peace or having a revolt on your hands.

It's a good idea to check up on your cities from time to time. to see how the Governors are doing. It's even possible that they may have created so many Entertainers that your people can starve. If you see that things are getting really bad, then raise your Luxury rates. That will buy you a little more time. Not a lot, but maybe enough to end the war.

Catt · June 14, 2002, 13:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Although you're citizens appear to be happy, it's only because your Governor has been making more and more Entertainers. The War Weariness is still building up, and at a certain point, there's nothing you can do about it, short of making peace or having a revolt on your hands.

It's a good idea to check up on your cities from time to time. to see how the Governors are doing. It's even possible that they may have created so many Entertainers that your people can starve. If you see that things are getting really bad, then raise your Luxury rates. That will buy you a little more time. Not a lot, but maybe enough to end the war.

This may be true in some circumstances, but the mysteries surrounding the accumulation of war weariness and how a revolt is triggered have never been adequately explained. For example, in a game where I had similar circumstances (prolonged, defensive war while in a democracy), I was checking my citizens at the end of every turn, even though I largely had the governors managing moods. At the end of the turn before my surprise revolt, my total pop-head count was something like 68, 30, 10, 12 -- happy, content, unhappy, entertainers, repectively (this is from memory, but I think I still have the save game in any event). In another game, I didn't have governors managing moods, but was checking happiness levels every turn (due to the presence of a large number of nuclear plants in my core cities

). In a truly massive democracy (100+ cities IIRC), I had not one single city in disorder, needed very few entertainers to keep it this way, and suddenly went into revolt without warning.

My hypothesis is that, even with adequate "happiness makers," at some point the level of war weariness reaches a tip-over point that will throw a civ into revolt, even if the typical signs of closing on that tip-over point (rampant unhappiness) don't manifest themselves. But it's only a hypothesis, and it is a very difficult game feature to test empirically.

Catt

Willem · June 14, 2002, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt

My hypothesis is that, even with adequate "happiness makers," at some point the level of war weariness reaches a tip-over point that will throw a civ into revolt, even if the typical signs of closing on that tip-over point (rampant unhappiness) don't manifest themselves. But it's only a hypothesis, and it is a very difficult game feature to test empirically.

Well isn't that what I said? But it seems you can buy yourself some time if you manage things properly, though it's quite possible I'm wrong about that. I've never had it reach that point myself, I've always been able to sign a peace treaty before that. But judging from a number of posts I've read, there's a point of no return, and it's either make peace or have a revolt.

Panag · June 14, 2002, 18:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Well isn't that what I said? But it seems you can buy yourself some time if you manage things properly, though it's quite possible I'm wrong about that. I've never had it reach that point myself, I've always been able to sign a peace treaty before that. But judging from a number of posts I've read, there's a point of no return, and it's either make peace or have a revolt.

hi ,

true , and you can stop it from coming that far , ....jsut sign a peace deal and start agin 2 turns later , ...or change government , or get more luxuries , ...

have a nice day

star mouse · June 14, 2002, 21:44

I have encountered two separate military advisor bugs today.

Bug 1

During the game, I pressed F3 to go to the Military Advisor screen, and the game crashed. Here's the info for the crash:

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 017f:004fa0d1.
Registers:
EAX=0aff5c60 CS=017f EIP=004fa0d1 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=00732194 SS=0187 ESP=00ace1ec EBP=00731f20
ECX=00000313 DS=0187 ESI=0869b8dc FS=47df
EDX=0869bf02 ES=0187 EDI=00000300 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
f6 04 95 80 78 65 00 40 74 2d 39 85 74 36 00 00
Stack dump:
00617b38 00731f20 00000000 00000000 0056234e 00617b38 00000072 00000000 005d8be0 bfdf62ca 004f556e 00000002 00617b38 004557f4 00000000 005d8be0

Then the game crashed again when I tried to load it up, it didn't even get to change the screen, then KERNEL32.DLL crashed as it tried to recover from the bug, my screen switched to 600 x 480 ... it got ugly, so I rebooted. I'm running Win98SE.

Bug 2

Here's a little bug with the military advisor that locks up the game. To lock up the game, do the following:[list=1][*]Save your game. (You won't be able to do so later.)[*]Fress F3 to go to the Military Advisor.[*]Switch to "Unit" view by clicking on the "Unit" button.[*]Right-click on any military unit so the menu appears.[*]Press F3.[*]Exit the Military Advisor screen.[/list=1]
YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION
YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME

At this point you may notice that the pop-up menu for the unit is still there. This menu is active; if you select "Activate Unit" it will activate. But you won't be able to move it, or do anything else. You will also hear the "MorphText.wav" sound at intervals. It seems as if pressing F3 has activated the Military Advisor again, and this one won't go away.

playshogi · June 14, 2002, 23:01

I built the Lighthouse Wonder, but it does not allow me to trade across the sea because I don't have a sea route. I have a sea route but the AI doesn't. (We both have harbors). Is it necessary when trading for both sides to have a sea route?

Winterlord · June 15, 2002, 03:54

Here's my $.02.
I also have experienced sound corruption since installing 1.21.
Additionally, when using the "J" command, occasionally the go-to circle and line disappear (all I have to do R-click and try again for it to be visible again).
Also, Subs. Firaxis has obviously subjected my Submarines to the Philadelphia Experiment, as they will occasionally disappear completely for a turn or two at a time now. The can still be commanded regularly, and will reappear immediately if I move them.
I have not changed anything on my system,i.e., Sound or Video Cards, and did not experience these glitches before Patch 1.21.

Catt · June 15, 2002, 04:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Well isn't that what I said? But it seems you can buy yourself some time if you manage things properly, though it's quite possible I'm wrong about that. I've never had it reach that point myself, I've always been able to sign a peace treaty before that. But judging from a number of posts I've read, there's a point of no return, and it's either make peace or have a revolt.

I think we're largely in agreement, I just wasn't terribly articulate -- I was trying to emphasize that indicators of an impending revolt (governors making too many entertainers, and your suggestion that one needs to keep a close tab on what the governors are doing) are not always there. I have seen a revolt when my governors have made very few entertainers and when there is little other sign of unhappiness. I have also seen a revolt when no governors were active, and where I saw no signs of unhapppiness myself. It can be difficult (and frustarting for some) to "manage properly" without input that something is going wrong, or without knowing, again because of no inputs, when the time to make peace or suffer revolt arrives.

I don't think this is a "bug," so much as it is an "issue" that could use a little sunshine from the programming team at Firaxis.

Radiation Zero · June 15, 2002, 08:57

One thing I've noticed about 1.21f is that the AI civs don't tend to stay in Democracy so much, which is good.

Now if there was just a Fascism... are there gonna be any new govs in PtW?

See? Communisms! And a Monarchy!

Panag · June 15, 2002, 13:50

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse
I have encountered two separate military advisor bugs today.

Bug 1

During the game, I pressed F3 to go to the Military Advisor screen, and the game crashed. Here's the info for the crash:

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module CIVILIZATION3.EXE at 017f:004fa0d1.
Registers:
EAX=0aff5c60 CS=017f EIP=004fa0d1 EFLGS=00010206
EBX=00732194 SS=0187 ESP=00ace1ec EBP=00731f20
ECX=00000313 DS=0187 ESI=0869b8dc FS=47df
EDX=0869bf02 ES=0187 EDI=00000300 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
f6 04 95 80 78 65 00 40 74 2d 39 85 74 36 00 00
Stack dump:
00617b38 00731f20 00000000 00000000 0056234e 00617b38 00000072 00000000 005d8be0 bfdf62ca 004f556e 00000002 00617b38 004557f4 00000000 005d8be0

Then the game crashed again when I tried to load it up, it didn't even get to change the screen, then KERNEL32.DLL crashed as it tried to recover from the bug, my screen switched to 600 x 480 ... it got ugly, so I rebooted. I'm running Win98SE.

Bug 2

Here's a little bug with the military advisor that locks up the game. To lock up the game, do the following:[list=1][*]Save your game. (You won't be able to do so later.)[*]Fress F3 to go to the Military Advisor.[*]Switch to "Unit" view by clicking on the "Unit" button.[*]Right-click on any military unit so the menu appears.[*]Press F3.[*]Exit the Military Advisor screen.[/list=1]
YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION
YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME

At this point you may notice that the pop-up menu for the unit is still there. This menu is active; if you select "Activate Unit" it will activate. But you won't be able to move it, or do anything else. You will also hear the "MorphText.wav" sound at intervals. It seems as if pressing F3 has activated the Military Advisor again, and this one won't go away.

hi

patch , ......what version , ...

have a nice day

candidgamera · June 17, 2002, 12:28

Willem & Panang:

An update on expansionist results for non expansionist civs: Would agree on the scout unit itself, but posting above, I'd been getting these results giving the warrior the "all terrain as roads" flag and am now prepared to believe this does the same thing. (Big world exploration help the reason for doing it).

started playing with warrior changed to 2 MP and no flag and got almost nothing but barbarians landing on huts with a about a 230x210 world and 200 tech rate, restless barbs.

started another with flag back on and 1 MP warriors got nothing but workers, tech, and money - no bad results. Had tech rate turned up to 650 I think on a 240x200 world, restless barbs. (A rate proportionate to huge 160x160 and 400 would be 750, so my rates a little faster).

Sidebar: probably common knowledge, but low tech rate number for big worlds means faster tech, this can be dramatic. This is sure poorly explained on the editor help - a lot of which in general doesn't say a damn thing worthwhile.

Panag · June 17, 2002, 15:50

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera
Willem & Panang:

An update on expansionist results for non expansionist civs: Would agree on the scout unit itself, but posting above, I'd been getting these results giving the warrior the "all terrain as roads" flag and am now prepared to believe this does the same thing. (Big world exploration help the reason for doing it).

started playing with warrior changed to 2 MP and no flag and got almost nothing but barbarians landing on huts with a about a 230x210 world and 200 tech rate, restless barbs.

started another with flag back on and 1 MP warriors got nothing but workers, tech, and money - no bad results. Had tech rate turned up to 650 I think on a 240x200 world, restless barbs. (A rate proportionate to huge 160x160 and 400 would be 750, so my rates a little faster).

Sidebar: probably common knowledge, but low tech rate number for big worlds means faster tech, this can be dramatic. This is sure poorly explained on the editor help - a lot of which in general doesn't say a damn thing worthwhile.

hi ,

you can always start with a couple explorer's , ....
have you tried to start in a different era , ....

have a nice day

PGM · June 17, 2002, 18:50

A few things I've been noticing (sorry if this has been refered to previously). Anyone experienced this?

A) The limit for 1 airlift per city each turn has been removed.

B) Ex.: in diplomacy, the AI does not accept to be paid +2 per turn when your cash balance is -5 per turn. So you have to open the domestic advisor screen, drop your science rate from 50% to 40% so your balance goes up to +4, and then offer the exact same deal, which the AI will now promptly accept. Great. Now you have to open the domestic advisor screen again, and return the science rate back to 50%, thus getting a -7 balance per turn, which was exactly what you wanted to do from the start...

C) I've been abandoning cities that I've acquired culturally, but the previous owner no longer gets mad at me.

candidgamera · June 17, 2002, 21:59

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

you can always start with a couple explorer's , ....
have you tried to start in a different era , ....

have a nice day

panang:
was actually trying to slow the expansionist early get all the tech too quick. Am probably willing to live with an "imperfect porridge" at this point. Went to middle option on continents - helps to balance out - you have to build ships to get places.

Panag · June 18, 2002, 05:03

Quote:

Originally posted by candidgamera

panang:
was actually trying to slow the expansionist early get all the tech too quick. Am probably willing to live with an "imperfect porridge" at this point. Went to middle option on continents - helps to balance out - you have to build ships to get places.

hi ,

, what do you mean , the explores should move around .
so , who is having the tech('s) to fast , ....
what you want to do exactly , ....

have a nice day

candidgamera · June 18, 2002, 12:27

panang:

like to play on big worlds, but don't want to overpower the warrior too much in making him move faster to make exploration go a little faster. The "all terrain as roads" flag appears to be just like a scout unit in getting expansionist type, all positive results, landing on goodie huts. Would assume if I let explorers in at start, (moved them to astronomy, from navigation anyway), with 2 mp, all terrain as roads, this would only get worse. Have played several games where having this "expansionist" unit caused behavior is almost better than having "scientific" trait - the tech just comes so fast for free, especially with maxed-out sized continents. My current "balance" solution is to play with the middle option on continents - this means more islands, and keep warriors at 1MP, all terrain as roads. Its still all positive results so far, but better than all negative as before with just giving the warrior 2 mp, no all terrain as roads, and the islands act as firebreaks to getting tech too fast - and the worlds seem more interesting too.