Computer Gaming World CIVIII preview - Page 3

Tjoepie · March 28, 2001, 09:38

For a while now have I been reading posts on CIV3 but this one is great.

Thanks alot for the scan's and info Shuttleswo, it made my day!

I love the idea that making nuclear weapons will become less obvious since it seems you need the right materials to make stuff.

OIL:

The thing I would love to see is that you need oil to use "oil-using" units with fosile-fuel engines. This would make resources an important issue for diplomacy or even war in modern times (unless you specialise in other units as alternitive)! Let's face it in today's world natural resources make all the difference. Look at the Gulf War. Maybe even use oil to trade for things your nation could use from others and create a global resource economy. This way you could wage economic war as well by trying to monopolise resources. But in case of oil I think this should be used as an extra and that for example all nations should have a minimum per turn to operate a certain number of units according to the surface of their empire. It would be great if a civ could for example operate a number of "extra" units outside there cities using oil for each oil icon in their zone of control. That way one could have "reserve" units in cities or units without oil allocated to them in reserve, just like nations have in the real world! Artillery in a city could then be used to defend it but you can't move them unless you allocate oil for them. Maybe they could even save up oil in peacetime as a strategic reserve, just like until now I used gold as a reserve to build units fast when war breaks out. I think oil icons( just as any other resource) should then probably be hidden until the right tech is developed to only induce a resource race when the resource is dicovered and can be used. This way you might have a bad island nation build on desert and so lag behind. And then suddenly have a lot of oil at your disposal to take revenge. That seems very nice gameplay and realism to me for a civ game...
It's just an idea that might ad a level a realism to the game and some different strategies.

And as Sparky said, could resources get depleted?

Feel free to comment !

PS. Keep up the good work Dan & the whole Firaxis team! I've never been this excited about a game before!

Excuse me if my English spelling in not perfect...

Tjoepie · March 28, 2001, 09:53

By the way, does anyone know why there is a bi-plane flying over the city screen of Baltimore ?
Being a pilot myself, I just wondered what that could mean or could it just be part of the background graphics ... any ideas ?
Crop spraying with "DDT" maybe :-) ?

Henrik · March 28, 2001, 10:20

quote:

Originally posted by Kull on 03-28-2001 01:19 AM
Henrik: Copy the link directly into your browser. It didn't work for me either when I just clicked it. You could also try these:

1) Terrain

2) City View

3) Military Advisor

4) City Management
[This message has been edited by Kull (edited March 28, 2001).]

Strange, when I was at school they worked, but when I try to open them from home (where I actually have a better connection) it wont even try to load the site. It says the server name is wrong.

I did take a look at the pictures from school
I like everything I see except for the city itself (if it is a city?) in the first picture, it looks like a quarry!
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited March 28, 2001).]

March 28, 2001, 10:54

Firaxis.. firaxis... The shots are nice, very good work. I love the city, it's exactly how it should look - and I do hope it does expand over the land.

I just have one suggestion, we have complaints that the land is too dark - I have to agree, but then again, the land in reality is also quite dark - DEPENDING on where you live.

So, Firaxis, why don't you start off with lush green plants, etc at the beginning of the game, and as your cities get bigger during the industrial age, make the land around it get darker (like it is now). And then in the future it gets greener again with less pollution using enviroment friendly factories, cars, etc.

And it doesn't just have to be cities, it can be land that is heavily used (run) over with units and roads and railways, etc.

I love the city view and the military advisor, I can't wait to see him in action.

Oh and don't forget cliffs on the edge of land, like the white cliffs, and large beaches!! I want to have wars like Normandy too yknow!?

BRENNANonTHEmoor · March 28, 2001, 10:54

thankyou shuttulesworth

the game sounds awsome... how sweet would it be if it came out in november too thats only 5 months

bagdar · March 28, 2001, 11:16

I'm not impressed either... This has got nothing to do with enlarged mag pictures or bad scanning quality. I hope these are only early drafts.

The diplomat · March 28, 2001, 11:43

To those who have the preview, does it say anything about the AI?

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

Henrik · March 28, 2001, 12:07

I figured out what was wrong, you where using "\" instead of "/", there is a rule saying that in an url there has to be "/"'s why anyone would do it the other way escapes me

yin26 · March 28, 2001, 12:36

quote:

Yin26, overreacting is bad, but underreacting is...?

Good question. Don't get me wrong. I'm quite interested in some of the gameplay elements. Resource-specific units/abilities is great (and the exact thing discussed here, hmmm). And push come to shove, it's about gameplay.

But my underracting is more a reaction to the overracting. I think it's clear to anybody who thinks about it a moment that these are VERY early shots...and none too impressive on their own. A moderately modified city view itself just doesn't get me going, either.

Basically, it's just too damn early to call Civ3 anything but a work-in-progress, that's all. That said, I have immense faith in Sid.

Youngsun · March 28, 2001, 22:41

Kull

quote:

Edit: Posted before seeing Youngsun's comment. Another proof of the "Great Minds think alike concept"!

That's what I call telepathic communication, man!

March 29, 2001, 01:28

Did someone say no fundy? BOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Its my favorite government

Hope they included fascism.

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CASE CLOSED!

Jeje2 · March 29, 2001, 01:47

Adm. N.
(Sorry for not replying sooner, but I had problems with these forums yesterday. The password checksystem or something was out of order for a while, at least for me. )

Well I just got the idea while reading your post...

In Colonisation you had specialists, (Timber, masonry, etc.)
But there was never space/citicens to have all buildings (Sawmill etc.) in full production, thus you had a city good in timber another maybe in wool aso.

Now, think of using this idea in a Civtype game.
So maybe one city would have a hiways (generating transport for your nation), next one would have a mill (more food), third one could have Olympic stadium sites (amusement), fourth one barracks (army), aso.

Do you now get the point...
This way you would have to have several cities and choose what you specialise on in each city. (NOTE: Civ3 will apparently be more on a nation scale balancing than SMAC/CivII)

Hope you got my silly idea.

March 29, 2001, 01:54

Why no fundamentalism? There are plenty of fundamentalist states, like Iran, Afghanistan, Mississippi . . .
Seriously though - does anyone know what government is suppossed to look like in this thing? I hope its more like the social engineering in SMAC. Despotism, Democracy, Monarchy, Republic and Communism just aren't enough options.

Nemo · March 29, 2001, 03:53

i hope that the ocean or ocean edges move, like in Civ I

and the people and the city seem very blan, too much brown. but i am sure that will be fixed.

i hope i can watch the improvements get built in my city view screen when i finish them, also like in Civ I. i could care less about the dumb council though, waste of cd-rom space.

also isnt www.zdnet/cgw the website for this magazine? if so why does it have NO information on civiliationIII, at all. in the synopsis of the april 2001 edition, it says:

quote:

What's in the April issue of Computer Gaming World?
...
Previews:
Unreal II, MYST III, and Tropico.

umm, where is civIII?

Adm.Naismith · March 29, 2001, 04:56

Jeje2 thank you for Colonization details.
You can be right, and the idea has its merits, but I don't think it will be implemented, because Firaxis already decided to leverage on resource availability.
Throwing in also facilities availability will be an overkilling IMHO (you must have the resource AND the factory? Too much to handle!).

BTW I was left out of forum too, a clear move from someone to shut me from revealing more Civ III screenshot hidden secrets

Tjopie you ask

quote:

By the way, does anyone know why there is a bi-plane flying over the city screen of Baltimore ?

But I already guessed that into my previus post!

Do your homework

and read ten times:

quote:

- we can see a biplane on city view: short of eyes candy, I do a jump of imagination and suppose it reproduce a Wonder (e.g. Whright Brothers first fly) or may be a Feat of Wonder (e.g. First fly over The Channel)

Just my guess, but I would love if will end to be true

------------------
Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Roman · March 29, 2001, 06:04

What I would be interested in is whether you can stack resources of the same type for added benefit. Basically I think that if you mine 2 ivory you should get more benefit than if you mine 1 ivory. However, this would have to be capped at some point (say 3 resources of the same type) to force you to look for diverse types of resources.

Tjoepie · March 29, 2001, 08:54

Sorry about that

I must have read over it ...

Sparky · March 29, 2001, 10:02

True, everything did look a little muddy. I actually enjoyed CTP's lush world (just not the game!) and I wouldn't mind seeing a lot of vibrant greens in Civ3.

I doubt I'll use the advisors anyway. I know how to play civ, and I'll do whatever I feel like in the game. Plus, no matter how hard they try, the advisors are doomed to make some bad suggestions.

shuttleswo · March 29, 2001, 11:39

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo on 03-29-2001 02:53 AM

also isnt www.zdnet/cgw the website for this magazine? if so why does it have NO information on civiliationIII, at all. in the synopsis of the april 2001 edition, it says:

umm, where is civIII?

strangely enough, it is the MAY edition of CGW that has the preview. why i received the may edition in march is one of those mysteries of the world of print magazines. as such i suspect only those that subscribe to the magazine have it; in which case you might try your local library

Stefu · March 29, 2001, 11:54

yin26, I wouldn't be too worried about screenshots not being first-class quality this early. Have you seen some early screenshots for Starcraft? They said it was being done on Warcraft 2 engine, but it looked like it was being done in WarCraft 1 engine to me, and apparently with only four colors, primary of which was violet. They were UUUG-LEEE. These screenshots, OTOH, look kinda nice, and I could well play game with those graphics.

jglidewell · March 29, 2001, 14:09

First impressions - Cool!

all Speculation now-

City magement - I can barely see the city management screen, I need a better scan!

Map screen - It seems that the borders are affected by the roads some how.
The resources do need to be unique and easily identifiable once they are discovered. This is the map I live on and is the most important to get right. The caption state RAW, are there refined materials? Are the scales between the units and other terraing features and citys okay?

Military Advisor - Who. Who. Who let the dogs out!

City view - This is cool. it is definately fall in this shot.

raingoon · March 29, 2001, 16:36

I take another point of view on the "seasonal" art. I don't think this is supposed to represent "autumn" or "fall" so much as the autumnal majesty of history, as depicted in Brueghel's (sp?) paintings. Will there be "seasons" depicted? I think that misses the point. Clearly Firaxis is taking a very long, long view of history and there is a mis en scene to the game (sort of the whole picture, the feeling, the way it all fits together to form a singular impression) that is taking shape. And it looks like the Romantic paintings of Classical times, (see also: The Rape of the Sabine Women, etc.). It's not literally about autumn, but history lives not in the dead of winter, nor in the promise of spring or the present summer. It's aged, it's had its day, and now it is history. At least that's my interpretation of the look.

A few weeks ago I wrote a column on "The Look" of Civ 3, and what I hoped it would be. It's far too soon to say reliably "this is what it is," but I'm not above hazzarding a few opinions and I'm encouraged. My general sense is this is the right team, at the right time, doing the game right.

That said, a lot can go wrong between now and the release. Wouldn't want them to sit on their golden laurels.

GaryGuanine · March 29, 2001, 16:58

I hope there are no art historians working on Civ3.

Lots of you guys are really worried about how this game is going to come out. Come on, when's the last time these guys disappointed? No offense, but some of you are acting like those hardcore Star Wars fans before the new one came out, they already decided that it was a failure. The first two Civilization games were fantastic, and there's no reason to think that Sid and Brian have, say, taken a lot of drugs between their last project and now.

And what's with all the concern over the graphics? I thought that the hardcore Civ player's trademark was a "gameplay's the thing" attitude?

Gary

[This message has been edited by GaryGuanine (edited March 29, 2001).]

lord of the mark · March 29, 2001, 17:13

quote:

Originally posted by GaryGuanine on 03-29-2001 03:58 PM
I hope there are no art historians working on Civ3.

Lots of you guys are really worried about how this game is going to come out. Come on, when's the last time these guys disappointed? No offense, but some of you are acting like those hardcore Star Wars fans before the new one came out, they already decided that it was a failure. The first two Civilization games were fantastic, and there's no reason to think that Sid and Brian have, say, taken a lot of drugs between their last project and now.

And what's with all the concern over the graphics? I thought that the hardcore Civ player's trademark was a "gameplay's the thing" attitude?

Gary

[This message has been edited by GaryGuanine (edited March 29, 2001).]

Sid and Brian ???????
Has Brian Reynolds abandoned BHG and gone back to Firaxis??? News to me.
Sorry if this is coming in late and out of context, but as a Brian Reynolds fan who has posted several times on the BHG forum speculating what BHG is doing, i cant let that one pass.

LOTM

Adm.Naismith · March 29, 2001, 17:33

Raingoon, epic paintings shade used to reproduce the feel of history, as the autumn of the mankind, is the most poetical opinion I ever red about the screnshoots. Right or wrong, it's neverthless lovely.

GaryGuanine

quote:

And what's with all the concern over the graphics? I thought that the hardcore Civ player's trademark was a "gameplay's the thing" attitude?

We are mostly liar, we'll kill for a Great Civ with Great Graphics

------------------
Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

yin26 · March 29, 2001, 18:42

LOL!

Stefu:

I agree with you. I'm NOT worried. I'm just reminding some people these shots are just a sad, sad version of what will eventually be released, so no sense jumping up and down as if these are great screenshots or something.

Shadowstrike · March 29, 2001, 18:44

*Branishes shiny dagger*

After looking at those pictures again, I think that they're going to make the game look like a painting, instead of as real as possible. I guess that they are trying to portray history in a nobler light.

smilo · March 29, 2001, 19:07

Ohooh, I'm getting worried. Have you guys noticed that the in the early game screenshot the city has skyscrapers. I hope the drakars and vikings running around are from another civ, as I WOULD FIND IT UTTERLY ANNOYING TO START AT 4000BC AND HAVE SKYSCRAPERS IN MY CITIES... this worries me ...

raingoon · March 29, 2001, 19:18

quote:

no sense jumping up and down as if these are great screenshots or something.

The fact that we now have screenshots is in itself a great thing. Besides, Yin, if either of us had any sense we wouldn't be here.

Speaking of making sense, Gary, what's wrong with art historians working on Civ 3?

raingoon · March 29, 2001, 19:26

Smilo,

I don't know for certain, but I got a feeling that city is a mock-up, a place-holder. It looks like an artist's rendering of simple modeled shapes. Those aren't skyscrapers, just purposely generic blocks. The magazine probably misquotes when it refers to "new city graphics." If so, they got a good chuckle over that at Firaxis, you can be sure.