Minor Civilizations?

Roman · April 12, 2001, 20:11

Sid stated in one of his letters that there will also be minor civilizations in Civ3. However, so far the idea has not resurfaced either in the CGW preview or on Firaxis website. Should we assume the idea has been killed in the development process? Any views?

IMO: Minor civilizations are dead, because the CGW preview was quite detailed and they did not mention this major issue.

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 20:26

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 04-12-2001 08:11 PM
Sid stated in one of his letters that there will also be minor civilizations in Civ3. However, so far the idea has not resurfaced either in the CGW preview or on Firaxis website. Should we assume the idea has been killed in the development process? Any views?

IMO: Minor civilizations are dead, because the CGW preview was quite detailed and they did not mention this major issue.

I don't think we should assume that anything is either in or out! Some of the beauty of a new game is the surprise when we finally get our hands on the game! I think Sid knows this. Imagine if everybody knew how the new game would look like before it is published?! Then we'll know what to expect and would probably be disapointed. I can't wait to explore civ3 when it finally arrives, and I hope it will have a lot of surprises. But I think that we can at least expect a "Alpha Centauri-lookalike". If there are any minor civs, they will probably quickly bow to your civ (or other civs), but will be hard to assimilate (like the jews).

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 20:36

quote:

Originally posted by King Richard on 04-12-2001 08:26 PM
I don't think we should assume that anything is either in or out! Some of the beauty of a new game is the surprise when we finally get our hands on the game! I think Sid knows this. Imagine if everybody knew how the new game would look like before it is published?! Then we'll know what to expect and would probably be disapointed. I can't wait to explore civ3 when it finally arrives, and I hope it will have a lot of surprises. But I think that we can at least expect a "Alpha Centauri-lookalike". If there are any minor civs, they will probably quickly bow to your civ (or other civs), but will be hard to assimilate (like the jews).

I agree with the fact that Sid is gonna keep tight-lipped on all the features, jeez the game is 8 months away, (at least) gotta keep the bulletin boards and fan sites interested with only small revelations at a time. About what tribes they'd be, I think most will be the Germanic tribes that occupied Eurasia prior during Romes fall, the Goths, Visigoths, Huns, etc.

Ilkuul · April 12, 2001, 20:44

quote:

Originally posted by Roman on 04-12-2001 08:11 PM
Minor civilizations are dead, because the CGW preview was quite detailed and they did not mention this major issue.

Oh no, I'm definitely assuming they're still very much alive! They were mentioned, as you say, but Firaxis have just not chosen to give us any more information about them as yet. If they're really beefing up the diplomatic side, as they've said, I don't see how they can avoid having something like this, to allow for revolts etc. In their first 'Ask the Team', there was a question that specifically talked about "a tendency for a city to rebel (violently or through political shifts) after a time in order to rejoin its mother civilization (if still around) or revolting to re-create it's past civilization (if the original civ is not around any longer)?" -- and the answer from Firaxis, while not specifically mentioning minor civs, did say that there would be "all sorts of effects including many you refer to in your question".

Taken in combination with Sid's comments, this confirms to me that there will definitely be some equivalent of minor civs -- maybe not as we imagine them, but nevertheless an expansion of the simple 7 major civs in Civ2.

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 20:47

Remember that everything we've read from Sid, CGW, Dan, is still in flux. For as the game becomes further playtested (extensively playtested as claimed in CGW), these features that sound like good ideas may not last. I truly hope that minor civs stay, but don't forget, they may not
[This message has been edited by SerapisIV (edited April 12, 2001).]

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 20:57

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 08:36 PM
I agree with the fact that Sid is gonna keep tight-lipped on all the features, jeez the game is 8 months away, (at least) gotta keep the bulletin boards and fan sites interested with only small revelations at a time. About what tribes they'd be, I think most will be the Germanic tribes that occupied Eurasia prior during Romes fall, the Goths, Visigoths, Huns, etc.

About the tribes: If there are going to be minor tribes, I can't imagine that they are the tribes that occupied the eurasia. Perhaps some of them, but remember that some of these tribes settled in areas wich became France, England, Germany etc. This means that we are going to have a problem with city-names. French, franks and carolingians can't coexist, because they occupied the same territories at different times.

Ilkuul · April 12, 2001, 20:57

Absolutely wise, Serapis, but damping... definitely damping. I prefer to be optimistic and bite the bullet later!

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 21:04

I've always thought "assume the worst, everything else is bonus" Can't be dissappointed that way.
Though optimism does creep in there I'm afraid. Particularly with tried and true game designers

.

But then again I did get suckered into being optimistic about C&C: Tiberian Sun, my mistake
[This message has been edited by SerapisIV (edited April 12, 2001).]

Lonestar · April 12, 2001, 21:53

How about the Toltecs? You kids, you love your Toltecs, right?

------------------
"People should know when they're conquered."

"Would you Quintis? Would I?"

"Soylant Green is people. PPPeeeoooppllleee!"
[This message has been edited by Lonestar (edited April 12, 2001).]

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 21:55

quote:

Originally posted by Lonestar on 04-12-2001 09:53 PM
How about the Toltecs? You kids, you love your Toltecs, right?

Who the hell are the Toltecs?

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:04

They were a pre-Aztec N. American civilization, about 4-5 hundred years of prominence or so. They conquered portions of the Mayans I think.

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:16

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:04 PM
They were a pre-Aztec N. American civilization, about 4-5 hundred years of prominence or so. They conquered portions of the Mayans I think.

You mean the Olmecs!

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:24

No the Olmecs were around 1000BC, the Toltecs, 1000AD
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAMRCA/CIVAMRCA.HTM

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:28

Yes, you're right! The Olmecs perished before the Maya ever excisted... I'm studying history, but I havent come to the Toltecs yet... (I should really know this since the exam is coming up...)

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:31

Studying N. American civilizations in Norway?

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:37

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:31 PM
Studying N. American civilizations in Norway?

Well, our global history book is in english and printed in the US. Damn good book by the way. I recommend it (Traditions & Encounters by Jerry H. Bentley and Herbert F. Ziegler), allthough it's a brick...

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:41

80 bucks after shipping, screw that! I got enough history books besides I still haven't gotten too. Maybe during the summer I'll put a dent into them
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...964075-6338218

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:45

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:41 PM
80 bucks after shipping, screw that! I got enough history books besides I still haven't gotten too. Maybe during the summer I'll put a dent into them
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0070049238/o/qid=987129583 /sr=8-3/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/103-4964075-6338218

I know! It's even more expensive in Norway. As I said; It's a brick...

beyowulf · April 13, 2001, 04:29

Hmmm...Toltecs..weren't those the guys in Battlestar: Galactica?

Gramphos · April 13, 2001, 06:47

I want minor civs. They will make the game more realistic.

Henrik · April 13, 2001, 14:08

I also want MC's (minor civs, the abreviation comes from MN's (minor nations in Imperialism I/II))

Ilkuul · April 13, 2001, 17:48

I'm so glad there's a strong lobby for MC's! Firaxis, take note...

Gramphos · April 13, 2001, 18:00

Maybe shall I make a new unofficial POLL on the topic.
What do you think, do we need one?

Ilkuul · April 13, 2001, 18:18

quote:

Originally posted by vgriph on 04-13-2001 06:00 PM
Maybe shall I make a new unofficial POLL on the topic.
What do you think, do we need one?

YES!

Henrik · April 14, 2001, 02:46

When they speak about leaders at the Firaxis website they say that

quote:

Greatnations will be able to produce...

Now that indicates that there is other nations than the great ones doesn't it?

Gramphos · April 14, 2001, 05:24

A POLL is coming up.

Hopefully ready within one hour.

Gramphos · April 14, 2001, 06:15

The POLL is here now!

Bubba · April 15, 2001, 21:05

I would be interested to know what people mean by "minor" civilizations having not played Imperialism myself? How would they be implemented? What would the interaction be between minor & great civs? Could they change into
one another? It would seem to be difficult to have MC's if you are not located in a specifc time period (e.g., the MC's of the ancient times will be different than the those in N.A. in the age of discovery or those found in imperialism).

With that said, I really enjoyed the interaction between the MC's in Colonization and the great powers. But there needs to be some interaction other than only conquering/destruction of villages. In Colonization one could arm the minor tribe, trade goods with them, send missionaries to convert units to your civ or destroy villages. In turn, some of the MC's were fierce warriors who would attack if you angered them by stealing, converting, or desrtoying villages. If a slaver unit is included that might be another possible interaction with the MC's.