The future of Firaxis - Page 4

Velociryx · April 30, 2002, 13:36

's a good thought, GP....and one I've given some serious thought to. Trouble is, the gaming industry is even tougher to break into than the publishing industry, and I beat my head on THAT particular door for more than six years before slipping under the crack.

I've shopped myself around to a few design companies, but, as I feared, unless you know somebody, they really aren't all that interested.

That's okay though. As I said, I'm not out to change the industry, I just don't feel particularly like playing by the established "house" rules. Seems like "the house" has stacked the deck in its favor....if the industry at large can deal with that, more power to them. I just figured that, while we're doing it, we may as well do it in a way that puts a few advantages on our side.

In the end, maybe it'll wind up being little more than a grand experiment that failed beautifully.

I DO know we've got at least this one game in us though. The rest....well, we'll either learn the ropes quickly or crash and burn.

I hope it's the former....

-=Vel=-

Scouse Gits · April 30, 2002, 13:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx
Starting then, we'll begin expanding our circle of testers with that, and each subsequent release. Best way to make sure your name doesn't fall through the cracks is to head to my site (http://www.angelfire.com/sc2/hartpence), click on the "Discussion Forums" link, and then to the "Candle'Bre" section, and make an entry in the "Sign In Thread" as a tester. Just leave me your e-mail addy there, and as soon as we reach that stage in the game, we'll have our testing crew at the ready!
-=Vel=-

Thanks - done ...

SG[1]

Velociryx · April 30, 2002, 14:41

Glad to have you, SG! And as soon as we've got something to test, it'll find its way into your hands!

-=Vel=-

TCO · April 30, 2002, 16:13

Vel, you could try:

-volunteering (get paid in training)

-working in other software development

ravagon · April 30, 2002, 23:58

Quote:

Originally posted by GP
Look what happened to Alan...he thought he knew how to change the industry also...

I suggest getting some time as an employee at a game shop before marching out on your own. You will learn a lot that will help you...

Alan is a slightly different case in that he had a set publisher pretty much right from the outset, hence deadlines, game requirements/approvals and whatever other negative bits'n'pieces that went with it.

I would also hazard a guess that, at this stage, any time Vel spent working for others simply to gain experience wouldn't really be worth the time involved. He'd probably either have to start off from the bottom and work his way up [ie: a very low signal-noise ratio wrt useful data

] or else let them know exactly why he needed said experience - ie: For use in his own projects - hence they'd probably hire somebody else who would opt to stay with them...

TCO · May 1, 2002, 01:02

It would be worth the time. Since he has a lot of fluffy (wrong) ideas about what will work.

Velociryx · May 1, 2002, 09:30

The only observation I would make is this:

Since the ideas presented here thus far have the virtue of being unorthodox (mentioned before), and not having been tried yet that I'm aware of, I am uncertain how they can categorically be labelled "wrong."

Perhaps they are, and IF they are, experimentation will reveal that soon enough. But I think it's premature at this point to count them out.

I guess my perspective is that, looking at the industry, I see a flawed model that puts a disproportionate amount of power in the hands of the publisher. It's the same in the book publishing world, and IN the book world, I found a way around that power imbalance.

I think I've found a way around this imbalance. I tried, and succeeded with books, and I feel confident here.

Time will tell....

-=Vel=-

TCO · May 1, 2002, 13:39

If you want bad (but untested) ideas, I can supply lots more. You need to be more savvy if you expect to get anywhere. Drop the wide-eyed attitude and be more shrewd...

Velociryx · May 1, 2002, 15:34

What is shrewd about leaving your fate entirely in the hands of a publisher who doesn't have your best interests at heart? This is, in fact, how the industry is structured, and I find little shrewness in the model on the part of the designers. In fact, I daresay it's the publishers who have been quite shrewd in playing their hand in such a way that they have taken an unprescedented level of control over the industry. And look what it has gotten us....a parade of crap games, interrupted now and then by some gems.

From the outset, I made the determination that if I was gonna do it, I'd do it differently.

Drawing on my experience with book publications, I found that with a dash of applied creativity, it was entirely possible to turn the tables on the establishment and play by a different set of rules. Given that the book publishing and game publishing industries have more in common than they have differences, it struck me that the same line of thinking could be applied.

Given my success in the former, it makes me confident in my success in the latter.

In all, I'd say the above is certainly not wide-eyed (in that it has its basis in fact, and builds on earlier successes with similar experiments), and there's nothing in my overall plan that calls for an enormous leap of faith, unorthodox or no.

The biggest question in my mind is: What's so great about the current business model? It is clearly structured to be heavily in favor of the publishers. We're not publishers, so it follows that the deck is not stacked in our favor.

Thus, is it shrewd or bad to attempt to find a way to level that playing field, or is it more shrewd (shrewder?) to simply play along and hope for the best?

-=Vel=-

TCO · May 1, 2002, 15:46

Vel, the hint meter is in overload. I really can't say any more. I want you to succeed in your venture. But I worry that you are dreaming instead of exploiting an opportunity. You are putting a lot of unknowns together. New business, new career, new business model. I would feel better about your chances if you were an experienced designer starting a new business. or an existing company moving to a new model or a new designer getting in the game using the old model. but the combination of new elements makes me very doubtful...

sure it may be possible to change the distribution model for games. But only if you rally know how to attack it. Ask yourself why things are the way they are. Isn't there at least a chance that the markte has naturally converged to this current model? Only if you are more astute in understanding the current situation will I think that you have a glimmer of a chance of changing it.

BTW: Please describe your success in book publishing...

Velociryx · May 1, 2002, 17:41

One more before I head outta here for the day...whew...tougher-than-normal Wednesday that didn't leave me much time to hang out and chat, but...tomorrow's another day....

To continue our ongoing discussion, I first feel the need to reiterate what I consider to be key points along the way:

First and foremost, I'm not out to change the industry. If it happens, I can't say I'd mind, but that's not a goal of mine. What IS a goal of mine, however, is to play the game differently....mostly on the thinking that the way the game is presently played by designers is not in their favor. I don't like those rules, and since there's nothing binding me to them, don't feel particularly compelled to abide by them if I can think of an alternative.

Second, while it is true that I am combining elements that have little in common with each other on the surface....they share one extremely important commonality. They're all things that I'm passionately interested in. That passionate interest has led to a great deal of research and study, which is, even as I type this, being converted into applied knowledge.

Third, I would argue the point that an untested idea is not the same thing as a bad idea. It's value (good or bad) is an unknown quantity, precisely because it has not yet been tested. It's true that mixing a number of unknown elements together can produce a wide variety of effects, and that one of those effects is a quite beautiful explosion. If I'm wrong, that's precisely what we'll see. An explosion in slow motion, and then, the people who told me several months ago that there was no way in hell we could succeed will have something to pat themselves on the back for, for being right.

If I'm right, what we'll have is a company that can sustain itself on one leg, while the the other focuses on making really cool computer games, without having to pander to, or bend over backwards for publishing houses. That will make us a rare beast in the business indeed.

In my head, these things are three separate enterprises that happen to be under the same umbrella. No one idea has much to do with the other, except for the fact that I know a bit about all three, and am really interested in them. That they are under the same umbrella, however, binds them together in a way. Loosely, it's true, but there is a connection. I guess if I were to put a fine point on it, I am that connection.

As to publishing....I discovered a way ignore the "you gotta know somebody to get in" paradigm of the publishing world by making use of budding POD technology (The SMAX Guide was published in this manner, and is a profitable enterprise on its own). Soon, it will be joined by two novels I've finished, both of which will enjoy the benefits of something approaching a national advertising campaign. The hope is that, not only will the books contribute to my other interests, but the exposure will bring even more eyeballs to the candle'bre/velocigames website, creating an unexpected synergy there.

The first of the two novels is due to be out in 2-3 weeks, with the second following along by (I'm guessing at the moment....October?) - I'm gonna start that process and firm up the advertising scheme/dates tonight when I get home, in fact.

So....the key's in the ignition....all I gotta do it turn it, and I'll be doing that at about ten this evening....

By the way, I appreciate this conversation more than you could know, GP! You keep me thinking...keep me on my toes. I like that.

-=Vel=-

Spaced Cowboy · May 1, 2002, 18:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Wouldn't it be awesome if somebody can create a M.U.L.E. lookalike with some better graphics that can be played on the Net?

That can be such a killer

Currently nothing available, nobody finished a version by themselves. However, our friends at schrapnel games are working on one.

Speaking of which, Vel you should contact them!

R:PM

Spaced Cowboy · May 1, 2002, 18:44

Whew! what a thread I've discovered. Nows I know whys youse guys never post at the forum....tooo blasted busy.

Vel, I hate to say this, but I was a bit turned off by the real estate angle as well. Real estate is like everything else, buy low, sell high, and hope the difference offsets the costs of ownership in the interim.

Most of the really cool success stories were garage started. That is very appealing to me. I think of that site as an internet garage.

Basically I'm trying to say think small to start, then let it grow. Currently we have no expenses which matches quite nicely with our no income situation.

Live by the motto KISS
Keep it simple silly

R:PM

TCO · May 1, 2002, 20:41

Vel, how profitabel has your publishing been? How many horus of work have you spent? What expenses have you had? And what revenue have you generated? How many copies of books have you sold? at what price?

Velociryx · May 2, 2002, 11:22

Not sure I can answer the question of how profitable it's been. To do that, I'd need to answer the other question you asked, about how much time I spend writing.

Not sure I can answer that, any more than I could answer the question "how much time do I spend inhaling?"

I need to write in the same way we all need to breathe. If I'm not writing, then I'm thinking about writing, or planning to write, or wishing like hell I WAS writing. Even when I sleep, I'm dreaming things to write about.

So....I guess the simplistic answer would be....all the time. 24/7, but that's not really a "fair" answer, because, like breathing, it's something I'd be doing anyway, even if I wasn't getting published.

As to numbers and such, I can tell you that where the SMAX Guide is concerned, all my expectations were exceeded, and it had absolutely zero advertising. The only thing even resembling advertising was a thread about it here at 'poly. It got no other mention, and yet, I've seen word of it on sites all over the 'net (I do a bit of detective work to track the spread of stuff like that...*G*)

The success of that first work then, can be directly attributable to the folks here at 'poly (a HUGE thank you to everyone!

), and it has served as the springboard to allow me to publish my two novels AND give them a national ad campaign (consisting of marketing to the top fifty indie bookstores in the country, two professional reviews arranged, advertising on a variety of websites, Baker and Taylor and Ingram's Database listings, advertising in the New York Times, and a fistful of others). All that, because of the people here....that is just....staggering to me...you guys are awesome!

-=Vel=-

Spaced Cowboy · May 2, 2002, 13:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx
Not sure I can answer the question of how profitable it's been. To do that, I'd need to answer the other question you asked, about how much time I spend writing.

Not sure I can answer that, any more than I could answer the question "how much time do I spend inhaling?"

I need to write in the same way we all need to breathe. If I'm not writing, then I'm thinking about writing, or planning to write, or wishing like hell I WAS writing. Even when I sleep, I'm dreaming things to write about.

So....I guess the simplistic answer would be....all the time. 24/7, but that's not really a "fair" answer, because, like breathing, it's something I'd be doing anyway, even if I wasn't getting published.
-=Vel=-

And we know that you can be passionate about games and gaming, but will you have the same feeling about managing real estate?

R:PM

Scouse Gits · May 2, 2002, 17:29

You can stop the threadjack now - a new forum has just opened ...
The Court of Candle'Bre - in 'other games'

SG[1]

TCO · May 3, 2002, 13:29

Vel, how much did you sell each book for (SMAC guide and the two novels) and how many copies have you sold?

Most writers can tell you how much time they spend writing, how many words they produce and what sales they acheive. It's not "anti-artistic" to know that stuff. It's just being reasonable. That's what helps them get work done and earn money off it.

TCO · May 5, 2002, 05:15

Mark/Ming/Vel:

How about moving this thread to the other forum?

TCO · May 9, 2002, 06:58

Can we get this moved please? (Haven't heard a negative response yet.)

TCO · May 11, 2002, 15:32

Could we please move this thread to Candle Bre forum. Vel wants it moved, but doesn't hve the power to do so.

Most of the discussion in here is Candle Bre.

I don't think it will be missed here.

Skanky Burns · May 12, 2002, 03:43

Thanks

Velociryx · May 13, 2002, 09:11

I second that...thank ya!

-=Vel=-

strategy · May 14, 2002, 05:27

Very interesting thread with much food for thought.

To the guys who asked about the M.U.L.E. thing, check out SpaceHorse from Shrapnel Games www.shrapnelgames.com. This sounds like it may interest you.

Personally, I go for the "coding because its fun" aspect myself. And because I've long since realized that the only one who'll code the kind of games I want to play is myself. Not a thing to build new business models on, but then again I don't think there is a need for revolution. Things are changing - slowly perhaps - but I do believe it is happening.

Best of luck on your project, Vel.