miscellaneous questoins

black mole · April 22, 2002, 23:20

I've recently started playing this again after a long time, and have a few random detail questions I either knew and forgot or was never clear on to begin with. If there's a thread that already answers these tidbits, please just point me there.

If there is some strategic resource on a jungle, say, and I clear the jungle, does the resource get lost or does it stick around on whatever new terain is created. I'm especially interesed in resources I can't see yet, the continent I'm on has precious little jungle in it and while its in an area I'd like to develop it, I'm not about to touch it if its likely to cost me vital late-game resources.

Can you control multiple leaders at once? I am interested in holding one in reserve to relocate my palace to minimize corruption, something I'll never be able to do without a leader, but if holding on to it is likely to prevent my getting more, I'd sooner gamble on a quick wonder and another showing up later.

I thought I had more, but they slip my mind if so.

Tuberski · April 22, 2002, 23:53

The resource will stay even after you remove the jungle.

There is nothing to suggest that having a leader makes it harder to get another. However, almost anybody you talk to will tell you to make an army with the first leader, and win a fight with him for the Military Academy small wonder. It makes leaders more likely to appear.

black mole · April 22, 2002, 23:59

Yes, I'd already done that, actually. Its quite sensible. I didn't want to get into the little details leading up to the present. Thank you very much for your help.

asleepathewheel · April 23, 2002, 01:18

i don't think its possible to have multiple leaders. after all, there is only one slot for him at the top of the military advisor screen

you'll just have to weigh the benefits of holding him vs using him soon on a desired wonder and hoping you get another when you need it. depends how warlike you are, really. if you dont go to war very often, you may have to hold on to him. but if you like to battle, then hey, roll the dice, its a game after all, take some chances.

notyoueither · April 23, 2002, 01:25

I have received at least 50 leaders in the games I have played. I have never received a leader while I already had one unused.

I have had games with groups of 12 Elite units. I would get leaders on a regular basis (every 2 or 3 turns of combat or so). When I left a leader in reserve (waiting for something useful to do) I did not receive another leader through 20 or 30 turns of active campaigning. Make of it what you will.

asleepathewheel · April 23, 2002, 01:29

exactly. I've had a single turn where I've gotten multiple leaders, I think my max was 4 in one turn (what a waste, the last 2 just became more modern armor armies). when I attack with 300 modern armors. but, in similar situations on different maps, if I hold the leader, nothing else happens.

black mole:
there are some great threads on leaders and the value of armies below, you should check them out in your spare time.

Skanky Burns · April 23, 2002, 05:06

I thought someone in the story forum had a save with more than 1 leader sitting around twiddling their thumbs... but I didn't actually download it and thus can't prove that it existed.

notyoueither · April 23, 2002, 05:14

Apparently you can get more than 1 in a single turn, from what I've heard. Haven't seen it though.

asleepathewheel · April 23, 2002, 19:53

you can get multiple leaders in a single turn, you just have to use a leader before you get another. Like I said above, I got 3 or 4 in a turn. I had about 300 modern armor, attacking a pretty large enemy. I was playing as the Japs, so the jump to elite was a pretty common occurrence, and I had a lot of elite m.a.s left over from a previous war. I also did the vet-soften, elite kill routine. In this turn, I probably killed off 200 mech infs, infs, tanks, etc., so there was a lot of kill opps for the elite units. I don't think I have the save, it was about a month ago, but it was also on the previous version.

is the appearance of leaders saved in the seed?

Theseus · April 23, 2002, 20:23

I think GL creation relates in some way to promotions, so yes, it would be saved in the seed.

Theseus · April 23, 2002, 20:29

BTW, speaking of "excess" leaders, I finally get the whole palace jump concept.

I generated 3 GLS VERY early in a game as Persia. I built the Pyramids and one Army, and then I got another GL before the Army could win a battle. There was nothing left to build, so I built the FP in the middle of my "arm' of the continent... much better placement than the Palace.

The effect is amazing... productivity with only 8-9 cities is through the roof.

When I extend the empire waaay north, I will do the Palace jump. If I understand right, build loads of workers except at the target city (BTW, as Persia, this will rock).

Is it just pop size? If I take all other cities down to say 7, and the target is 10-12, will it work?

Harovan · April 23, 2002, 21:21

It might not. AFAIK the best conditions for a palace jump is, when all cities but the target are size 1-3 with the target city being size 6+. I've made a lot of jumps meanwhile, and never failed my target city by this way. You have to build a lot of workers to adjust the city size. A good side effect of this is, that they pretty fast improve your terrain, and you can add a part of them back after the jump is landed.

asleepathewheel · April 23, 2002, 21:38

how is the jump computed, anyone know? what are the factors involved, if it isn't to the largest remaining city? does the culture of the new capitol matter at all?

notyoueither · April 23, 2002, 22:24

Easier to use a GL for the new Palace. If you are Militaristic and get lots of them (usually).

asleepathewheel · April 23, 2002, 22:33

i would have to agree with just using a gl.
i doubt that i would eveer want to just abandon my main city, esp. since it has all that built up culture.

Harovan · April 24, 2002, 03:06

The good thing with the free palace jump is, that you DON'T need a GL. It's hard to get one if you are non-militaristic and start on a small continent, wiping out 2 ancient AIs. Most of my MWs were regulars and only few of them could it barely make to elites. Then the continent was mine and I didn't have a single war since then. I had no GL for the whole game so far, and as I don't intend to start a war myself (I have all I need at my continent), I won't see one till the game ends.

Aeson has reported in an earlier thread, that he targeted the free palace jump in a size 9 city but it ended 12 tiles apart in a size 4 city. So it's best, if the target city is the only one size 4+, as I decribed above. I usually add workers (I have plenty of them due to size trims) till it triggers the food and happiness barrier, usually at size 7-9.

As to the built culture: I never build anything in my old capital than units (mostly settlers), so the only culture I have is from the palace. I won't lose a single culture point, and as the palace only jumps and not disappears, it practically persists.

AJ Corp. The FAIR · April 24, 2002, 10:34

I suppose the easiest way to jump your palace is very early on.

I use it approx. 75% of all my games: you usually don't start in the best location: just settle and scout and go for the land grab fase. After a while you'll have a decent knowledge of your continent. From very early on I'll usually have decided where (later on) my palace and FP should be. After that it's rather easy to successfully jump early on, just make sure your targeted city is +1 or +2 pops compared to all others (if only +1 I think that other factors such as improvements play a part).

I have only failed two times, and must have succeeded about 25 times.

I've never jumped my palace later on (only in ancient).

AJ

AJ Corp. The FAIR · April 24, 2002, 10:37

Concrete:

on a standard continents map, emperor, I'll jump when I've got around 6 cities. Population in most cities will be dropped due to settlers and (occasional) culture/civ characteristic pop rushings.

Non targeted cities won't have a +2 pop, and the targeted preferably 4.

AJ

Giovanni August · April 24, 2002, 21:48

About the 2 great leader at once issue, in the "French Sucession Game /Read/Play/Enjoy" thread at the Stories Forum we did have 2 GL at the same time.

So, I believe it's possible to have 2.... maybe more difficult... or maybe it was a bug (our Succesion Game crashed later one).

Saluti

asleepathewheel · April 24, 2002, 22:03

veerrrry interesting. can you point out the thread? was the save at that point posted? woudl be cool to see. I have heard (on that other board) that the couple of times this (allegedly) happened, the game crashed.

civman2000 · April 24, 2002, 22:37

wow I've never gotten more than 5 or so in a game...I assume all of you are ultrawarmongerers and play as miltaristic civs?

civman2000 · April 24, 2002, 22:46

iirc in the succession game i was recently in we didnt get a single GL! (random civ generator gave us the english

, and we lost in 1975 by spaceship...)

civman2000 · April 24, 2002, 22:48

Maybe the problem comes from looking at the "Available leader" box in the mil. advisor...it doesnt look like more than one could fit in there!

civman2000 · April 24, 2002, 22:50

I usually get only .4 GL per big war on average...

My rant

should be over now...

Giovanni August · April 24, 2002, 23:45

Ok here is the link. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=5

You can see that at turn 12 of gillskill post.

At page 6 Hurricane asked something about that.

Hope this help

Saluti

asleepathewheel · April 25, 2002, 00:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Giovanni August
Ok here is the link. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=5

You can see that at turn 12 of gillskill post.

At page 6 Hurricane asked something about that.

Hope this help

Saluti

very interesting, giovanni. I saw where it was originally stated by gillskill and the follow up question asked by hurricane, but I didn't see the response by gillskill. maybe he could clear it up?

Giovanni August · April 25, 2002, 00:26

Unfortunatly Gillskill is not posting any messages since a long time (AFAIK).

And when he posted the file he had already used the old GL for other purpouses.

Saluti

asleepathewheel · April 25, 2002, 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Giovanni August
Unfortunatly Gillskill is not posting any messages since a long time (AFAIK).

And when he posted the file he had already used the old GL for other purpouses.

Saluti

ahh well. maybe there is someone else out there with first hand information.