Magic: The Gathering

[Velociryx]

Chowlett, my first question would be to get a better sense of your personal preferences.

White and Black decks CAN be made to work together....but they are oppositional colors, and oppositional decks aren't as seamless in their construction as complimentary decks are (ie - there tend to be more naturally occuring combinations in decks constructed of complimentary colors).

So....I would start off by recommending that you pick either white or black, and pair it off with either's complimentary colors. Once you have nailed down some color combos you wanna use the next step is to look at your rares. We'll assume you have enough common/uncommon cards at your disposal to create pretty much any kinna deck you want, so we'll let the rares at your disposal guide the efforts at figuring out exactly WHAT to make...

-=Vel=-

[Chowlett]

Ok, fair enough. I'm probably more of a white player than a black - and I'm quite fond of the weenie decks myself. I'll scare up a list of my white, green and blue rares. I assume that since we're using 7th Edition onwards a lot of you guys would like descriptions of the cards?

[Velociryx]

I've been outta the game since 4th edition...LOL..yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, I'll prolly need at least a few descriptions....

-=Vel=-

[Grrr]

I did play. But these days I spend so much time on Apolyton I no longer have time.

[Chowlett]

Hmm, I have 81 with colourless, 68 without. I'll start with just the white ones. I have a couple of unopened decks I was saving for sealed deck or draft games, but I could probably open those and acquire more if I need them.

7th Edition
Master Healer - 4W - 1/4 Cleric - Tap: Prevent next 4 damage to target creature or player this turn.
Serra Angel (same as ever, I think)
Sunweb - 3W - 5/6 Wall - Flying. Can't block power 2 or less
Pariah - 2W - Enchant Creature - All damage dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead.
Glorious Anthem (same as ever, I think)
Reverse Damage - 1WW - Instant - Next time you would be dealt damage this turn, prevent damage and gain that much life

Invasion
Alabaster Leech - W - 1/3 Creature - White spells you play cost W more
Fight or Flight - 3W - Enchantment - At start of each opponent's combat phase, separate all creatures he controls into two face-up piles. Only one pile of his choice may attack this turn
Death or Glory - 4W - Sorcery - Separate all creatures in your graveyard into 2 face-up piles. Place one pile of opponent's choice into play, remove other from game.
Global Ruin - 4W - Sorcery - Each player chooses from the lands they control one of each basic type and sacrifices the rest
Rout - 3WW - Sorcery - May be played as instant if 2 more is payed. Destroy all creatures, no regeneration.

Planeshift
Dominaria's Judgement - 2W - Instant - Until end of turn, creatures you control gain protection from white if you control a Plains, from blue if you control an Island, etc for all 5.

Apocolypse
Degavolver - 1W - 1/1 Volver - Kicker 1B or 1R. If you paid the 1B kicker, comes into play with 2 +1/+1 counters, and has "Pay 3 Life: Regen". If you paid 1R kicker, one +1/+1 counter & first strike

Odyssey
Devoted Caretaker - W - 1/2 Cleric - W, tap: target perm you control gains protection from insts & sorcs until end of turn
Aven Shrine - 1WW - Enchantment - whenever a player plays a spell, that player gains X life, where X is the number of cards in all graveyards with the same name as that spell
Earnest Fellowship - 1W - Enchantment - Each creature has protection from its colours
Karmic Justice - 2W - Enchantment - whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls destroys a noncreature perm you control, you may destroy target permanent controlled by that opponent.

[Velociryx]

Chowlett, do you have any duplicates of any of these? If so, how many? Some good cards here, but it'll be hard to get them to come up reliably without dupes....will wait to offer up sugesstions tho, til I see what else we've got to play with...I have some ideas tho....*G*

-=Vel=-

[Chowlett]

No dupes of those, unless there are some in my sealed packs. I'll see if it's worth me opening them (ie - if it's still possible to "buy" packs for free)

Edit - Heh. Yes it is, and the "shipping delay" is 4 minutes. Give us a bit of time, and I might have some more for you.

[Velociryx]

'k....another question...as of the 7th edition, are there any easy methods of generating whatever color of mana you want/need? What I'm thinking is if so, then a splash of a third color might be the way to go, if we're dealing with a deck that has not many dupes. Few dupes of power cards changes the construction mechanic...we're relying on versatile effects more than specific locks...that's okay, though versatile decks tend to sacrifice a bit in terms of raw power, they can (sometimes....perhaps even often) make up for it in sheer staying power).

With few dupes among your rares, and assuming theres a reasonably easy way at your disposal to generate mulit-colored mana (or the color of your choosing), I'd recommend a 3 (splash), or even a rainbow deck. Those are always fun....

-=Vel=-

[Chowlett]

As a result, I now have in addition:

Elite Archers - 5W - 3/3 soldier - tap: deal 3 damage to target attacking or blocking creature
1 Additional Sunweb
Harsh Judgement - 2WW - Enchantment - as enters play, choose a colour. If inst or sorc would damage you, it damages its controller instead.
1 Additional Domin's Judgement
Pianna, Nomad Captain - 1WW - 2/2 Nomad Legend - Whenever P, NC attacks, all attacking creatures gain +1/+1 until turn end
Delaying shield - 3W - Enchantment - if you would be dealt damage, place that many delay counters on Shield instead. At beginning of upkeep, remove all counters and pay 1 life or 1W for each counter removed in this way.
1 Additional Karmic Justice
Vengeful Dreams - WW - Instant - Discard X cards from your hand, remove X attaxking creatures from game.

That's all I can get today.

[Chowlett]

For multi-coloured mana, at a glance I have:

1 City of brass (tap for 1 of any colour, deals one damage to you whenever tapped)
7 Nomadic Elf (1G 2/2 Elf, 1G: add one mana any colour)
4 Quirion Sentinel (1G 1/2 Elf, one of any colour when brought into play)
15 Fertile Land (1G Ench Land, when land tapped for mana, add one of any colour)
9 Chromatic Sphere (1 Artifact, 1 tap sacrifice: add one of any colour, draw a card)
1 Phyrexian Altar (3 arftifact, sacrifice creature: add one of any colour)
3 Archeological Dig (land, tap: 1 colourless. tap, sacrifice: 1 of any colour)
7 Quirion Explorer (1G 1/1 Elf, tap: add one of any colour an opponents land could produce)
1 Multani's Harmony (G ench Creature, creature has "tap: add one of any colour")
2 mana cylix (1 artifact, 1, tap: add one of any colour)
3 star compass (2 artifact, tap: add one of any colour your basic lands could produce)
1 Forsaken City (land. Doesn't untap. Remove card from hand fgrom game: untap. tap: add one of any colour)
3 Necra Disciple (B 1/1 Wizard. G, tap: add one of any colour. W, tap: prevent next 1 damage to creature or player this turn)
5 Ceta Disciple (as above, except cost is U, and W ability is replaced with R, tap: target creature gets +2/+0 until eot)
5 Helionaut (2W 1/2 soldier, flying. 1, tap: add one of any colour)
2 Abandoned outpost (Land, enters play tapped. Tap: add W. Tap, sacrifice: add one of any colour)
4 Bog Wreckage (as above for B)
6 Ravaged Highlands (as above for R)
4 Seafloor Debris (as above for U)
5 Timberland Ruins (as above for G)

Also some two-colour lands, I can't be bothered to check right now.

[Velociryx]

'k....perfect...looks like we've the raw materials to make a good tri-colored, or even a rainbow deck. That's sweet, cos it's a nice way to avoid the issue of fewer dupes, and it can be QUITE the surprise the first time you play against a given opponent.

I'll refrain from making tooooo many more observations till you get a chance to post your other rares, but yes....some good potential so far!

-=Vel=-

[Jon Miller]

asmentioned having duplicates is good

you want 4 of most things in your decks (of the better spell)

only if the spell is equal does it not matter

rares are not always the best cards, in fact often having some rares and some uncommons is better (And some commons)

what is it you want?

just a good deck??

a good deck has some major offense and some control (as well as ballanced manna and manna cost)

have you thought about complementary color weeny

do you have crusades, white knights, longbow archers (other good all white cards)

Originally posted by Chowlett
Hmm, I have 81 with colourless, 68 without. I'll start with just the white ones. I have a couple of unopened decks I was saving for sealed deck or draft games, but I could probably open those and acquire more if I need them.

7th Edition
Master Healer - 4W - 1/4 Cleric - Tap: Prevent next 4 damage to target creature or player this turn.
Serra Angel (same as ever, I think)

good

Sunweb - 3W - 5/6 Wall - Flying. Can't block power 2 or less
Pariah - 2W - Enchant Creature - All damage dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead.
Glorious Anthem (same as ever, I think)

these last two are good cards

Reverse Damage - 1WW - Instant - Next time you would be dealt damage this turn, prevent damage and gain that much life


Invasion
Alabaster Leech - W - 1/3 Creature - White spells you play cost W more
Fight or Flight - 3W - Enchantment - At start of each opponent's combat phase, separate all creatures he controls into two face-up piles. Only one pile of his choice may attack this turn
Death or Glory - 4W - Sorcery - Separate all creatures in your graveyard into 2 face-up piles. Place one pile of opponent's choice into play, remove other from game.

never played with this, it might be interesting

Global Ruin - 4W - Sorcery - Each player chooses from the lands they control one of each basic type and sacrifices the rest

might be interesting in a armageddon deck type (but I would not try it now)

Rout - 3WW - Sorcery - May be played as instant if 2 more is payed. Destroy all creatures, no regeneration.

wrath of godish, miht be good

Planeshift
Dominaria's Judgement - 2W - Instant - Until end of turn, creatures you control gain protection from white if you control a Plains, from blue if you control an Island, etc for all 5.

interesting but probably not for this deck

Apocolypse
Degavolver - 1W - 1/1 Volver - Kicker 1B or 1R. If you paid the 1B kicker, comes into play with 2 +1/+1 counters, and has "Pay 3 Life: Regen". If you paid 1R kicker, one +1/+1 counter & first strike

Odyssey
Devoted Caretaker - W - 1/2 Cleric - W, tap: target perm you control gains protection from insts & sorcs until end of turn

good for anti-control purposes (white and blue have the best anti-control)

Aven Shrine - 1WW - Enchantment - whenever a player plays a spell, that player gains X life, where X is the number of cards in all graveyards with the same name as that spell
Earnest Fellowship - 1W - Enchantment - Each creature has protection from its colours
Karmic Justice - 2W - Enchantment - whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls destroys a noncreature perm you control, you may destroy target permanent controlled by that opponent.

last two are a bit interesting (never used them before)

I would probably put in the 4 serra if you have them

do you have any patrol hounds, those are decent small

savanah lions are decent 1-drop (but I think they are too old)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

by the way I would strongly suggest a 2 color deck or less

otherwise your risk jumps way up for manna screw

also, it takes much more skil for more (I have never went beyond 3 myself (well my freind does not play black)

-------------

For multi-coloured mana, at a glance I have:

1 City of brass (tap for 1 of any colour, deals one damage to you whenever tapped)

- not really worth it

7 Nomadic Elf (1G 2/2 Elf, 1G: add one mana any colour)

- poor

4 Quirion Sentinel (1G 1/2 Elf, one of any colour when brought into play)

- decent

15 Fertile Land (1G Ench Land, when land tapped for mana, add one of any colour)

- decent

9 Chromatic Sphere (1 Artifact, 1 tap sacrifice: add one of any colour, draw a card)
1 Phyrexian Altar (3 arftifact, sacrifice creature: add one of any colour)

- probably not interesting

3 Archeological Dig (land, tap: 1 colourless. tap, sacrifice: 1 of any colour)
7 Quirion Explorer (1G 1/1 Elf, tap: add one of any colour an opponents land could produce)

- not very good

1 Multani's Harmony (G ench Creature, creature has "tap: add one of any colour")

- this is symmetric right?, is interesting

2 mana cylix (1 artifact, 1, tap: add one of any colour)

- not that good

3 star compass (2 artifact, tap: add one of any colour your basic lands could produce)

- not that good

1 Forsaken City (land. Doesn't untap. Remove card from hand fgrom game: untap. tap: add one of any colour)

- not that good

3 Necra Disciple (B 1/1 Wizard. G, tap: add one of any colour. W, tap: prevent next 1 damage to creature or player this turn)

- for 3 color deck

5 Ceta Disciple (as above, except cost is U, and W ability is replaced with R, tap: target creature gets +2/+0 until eot)

- I have thought about, but not played

5 Helionaut (2W 1/2 soldier, flying. 1, tap: add one of any colour)

- expensive

2 Abandoned outpost (Land, enters play tapped. Tap: add W. Tap, sacrifice: add one of any colour)

- sucks sort of

4 Bog Wreckage (as above for B)
6 Ravaged Highlands (as above for R)
4 Seafloor Debris (as above for U)
5 Timberland Ruins (as above for G)

- sucks

Also some two-colour lands, I can't be bothered to check right now.

- two color lands can be good

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Velociryx
'k....perfect...looks like we've the raw materials to make a good tri-colored, or even a rainbow deck. That's sweet, cos it's a nice way to avoid the issue of fewer dupes, and it can be QUITE the surprise the first time you play against a given opponent.

I'll refrain from making tooooo many more observations till you get a chance to post your other rares, but yes....some good potential so far!

-=Vel=-

having a few rares makes the deck

(I always like to put in 4 serra's and other 'rares')

but you need a good group of uncommons usually

I couldn't recommend a deck for hm until he does that

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

As a result, I now have in addition:

Elite Archers - 5W - 3/3 soldier - tap: deal 3 damage to target attacking or blocking creature

- there is better

1 Additional Sunweb
Harsh Judgement - 2WW - Enchantment - as enters play, choose a colour. If inst or sorc would damage you, it damages its controller instead.
1 Additional Domin's Judgement
Pianna, Nomad Captain - 1WW - 2/2 Nomad Legend - Whenever P, NC attacks, all attacking creatures gain +1/+1 until turn end

- I think this can be decent

Delaying shield - 3W - Enchantment - if you would be dealt damage, place that many delay counters on Shield instead. At beginning of upkeep, remove all counters and pay 1 life or 1W for each counter removed in this way.

- basically defense sucks (except control defense which can be used for offense)

1 Additional Karmic Justice
Vengeful Dreams - WW - Instant - Discard X cards from your hand, remove X attaxking creatures from game.

- seems a little interesting

That's all I can get today.

Jon Miller

[Velociryx]

Hiya John...I quite agree that a solid base of common/uncommon are key to the deck's construction. In fact, I would (and have) argued that it's entirely possible to develope a winning, downright MEAN deck on the basis of nothing but common cards.

Don't know if that's still true in 7th Edition, but I would hope so.

Still, the rares are what make the deck *interesting* IMO. Common card decks all play pretty much the same way, but the rares...ahhh, such variance there....

-=Vel=-

[Jon Miller]

do you have any lairs??

city of brass is a little better than some pain lands, a little worse than others

do you have an elfhame palace?

salt marsh??

shivan oasis?

urborg volcano?

these are the important ones in standard right now (besides the new torment black/color lands which are all good if you want to play black)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Hiya John...I quite agree that a solid base of common/uncommon are key to the deck's construction. In fact, I would (and have) argued that it's entirely possible to develope a winning, downright MEAN deck on the basis of nothing but common cards.

Don't know if that's still true in 7th Edition, but I would hope so.

Still, the rares are what make the deck *interesting* IMO. Common card decks all play pretty much the same way, but the rares...ahhh, such variance there....

-=Vel=-

oh yes, all you need are commons

but you need 'good' commons and uncommons

river boas are better than most rares, but some commons suck as much as some of the rares he was posting

Jon Miller

[Chowlett]

Getting late, I'll answer some questions now, some tomorrow:

I have 7 lair lands:
2 Crosis' Catacombs (U,B,R)
3 Rith's Grove (R,G,W)
2 Treva's Ruins (G,W,U)

7 Elfhame Palaces (G,W)
0 Salt Marsh
3 Shivan Oases (R,G)
3 Urborg Volcanos (B,R)

Unfortunately, only 1 Serra Angel

[Chowlett]

Vel - what colour rares next? U and G, followed by R and B if I get time?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Chowlett
Vel - what colour rares next? U and G, followed by R and B if I get time?

good commons and uncommons that you have 4 of is more important then rares you have 1 of (unless said rares are used in a combo)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Chowlett
Getting late, I'll answer some questions now, some tomorrow:

I have 7 lair lands:
2 Crosis' Catacombs (U,B,R)
3 Rith's Grove (R,G,W)
2 Treva's Ruins (G,W,U)

7 Elfhame Palaces (G,W)
0 Salt Marsh
3 Shivan Oases (R,G)
3 Urborg Volcanos (B,R)

Unfortunately, only 1 Serra Angel

probably do a green/white deck

maybe splash some red

so printout green rares next

Jon Miller

[Chowlett]

Ok, sometime tomorrow I will look at my G rares and my 4+G/W Commons&uncommons.

Could take a while

[Jaakko]

I play quite a bit of Magic these days, I also attend tournys from time to time. I find Apprentice to be the best online version for Magic, simply because it's free and you don't need to recollect your cards from scratch. As an added negative, MTGOnline doesn't include anything before Invasion Block, which leaves out just about all the classic stuff.

Chowlett, since you have only one copy of most of your rares, it's probably better not to try build anything around them. Some trading might make your rare collection a bit more consistent, and in that regard I'll do a review of the cards you listed (it's also great fun...).
You have some good stuff for 5-colour decks here, though.


Master Healer - 4W - 1/4 Cleric - Tap: Prevent next 4 damage to target creature or player this turn.

Usable after some planning, but for such a hefty price I'd prefer a real threat, like a Serra Angel

Serra Angel (same as ever, I think)

Yay for Serra! Too bad it's Flametongue bait in competitive Type 2 today...

Sunweb - 3W - 5/6 Wall - Flying. Can't block power 2 or less

Pretty good as far as walls go, probably best in a control setup.

Pariah - 2W - Enchant Creature - All damage dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead.

Some serious combo potential here, but you'll need more...

Glorious Anthem (same as ever, I think)

Pretty much a must for White Weenie, but there's a potentially even better card in Odyssey

Reverse Damage - 1WW - Instant - Next time you would be dealt damage this turn, prevent damage and gain that much life

Sideboard stuff, but on the downside there's much better lifegain to be had. Handy if you're expecting a lot of X spells

Alabaster Leech - W - 1/3 Creature - White spells you play cost W more

Yuk. What's the point of having white weenies that make everything else non-weenie?

Fight or Flight - 3W - Enchantment - At start of each opponent's combat phase, separate all creatures he controls into two face-up piles. Only one pile of his choice may attack this turn

Maybe usable in some sort of control setup, but the effect is just too small. Choice for the opponent is always bad.

Death or Glory - 4W - Sorcery - Separate all creatures in your graveyard into 2 face-up piles. Place one pile of opponent's choice into play, remove other from game.

A poor man's Wrath of God. See above.

Global Ruin - 4W - Sorcery - Each player chooses from the lands they control one of each basic type and sacrifices the rest

Verrry nice in a Domain deck (5-color). A lot of one sided bombs combined with big creatures is fun!

Rout - 3WW - Sorcery - May be played as instant if 2 more is payed. Destroy all creatures, no regeneration.

Quite good, a WoG with a panic button. Assuming, of course, that you have the mana.

Dominaria's Judgement - 2W - Instant - Until end of turn, creatures you control gain protection from white if you control a Plains, from blue if you control an Island, etc for all 5.

Good for Domain, has a multitude of uses.

Degavolver - 1W - 1/1 Volver - Kicker 1B or 1R. If you paid the 1B kicker, comes into play with 2 +1/+1 counters, and has "Pay 3 Life: Regen". If you paid 1R kicker, one +1/+1 counter & first strike

Worst of the volvers, but it's still a 4/4 first striker for 5 mana, which is nothing to sneer at.

Devoted Caretaker - W - 1/2 Cleric - W, tap: target perm you control gains protection from insts & sorcs until end of turn

Amazing card this one. A good 1-drop combined with an ability that can save your ass whenever you have important stuff on the table.

Aven Shrine - 1WW - Enchantment - whenever a player plays a spell, that player gains X life, where X is the number of cards in all graveyards with the same name as that spell

One of the most ineffective lifegain spells I've seen, especially since it works for the opponent as well.

Earnest Fellowship - 1W - Enchantment - Each creature has protection from its colours

Again good for Domain, assuming you have multicoloured creatures that can take proper advantage of this card.

Karmic Justice - 2W - Enchantment - whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls destroys a noncreature perm you control, you may destroy target permanent controlled by that opponent.

Pure sideboard stuff against things like LD or Braids.

Elite Archers - 5W - 3/3 soldier - tap: deal 3 damage to target attacking or blocking creature

Bad mana efficiency, but a reasonably effective creature.

Harsh Judgement - 2WW - Enchantment - as enters play, choose a colour. If inst or sorc would damage you, it damages its controller instead.

Again, pure sideboard stuff, this time against burn.

Pianna, Nomad Captain - 1WW - 2/2 Nomad Legend - Whenever
P, NC attacks, all attacking creatures gain +1/+1 until turn end

Pretty darn good for weenie decks

Delaying shield - 3W - Enchantment - if you would be dealt damage, place that many delay counters on Shield instead. At beginning of upkeep, remove all counters and pay 1 life or 1W for each counter removed in this way.

What's up with Odyssey and all these white sideboard rares anyway? Good synergy with Disenchant or bounce.

Vengeful Dreams - WW - Instant - Discard X cards from your hand, remove X attaxking creatures from game.

Good mass removal against beatdown, but only if you have the cards to take advantage of the discard.

[Chowlett]

I don't quite see the point of Earnest Fellowship. I'm mean, sure it's good against a direct damage deck, but since it affects all creatures, it's useless against another creature deck.

I mean, if you have a white creature facing a creature deck, either protecting it from white will have no effect (no white creatures on the other side), or not only will it be protected against enemy creatures, but they will be protected against it. It seems a little self-defeating.

But Pianna looks verrrry nice.

What's the better Odyssey version of Glorious Anthem?

[Shadowstrike]

If you're playing with older sets, its really worth it for white wennie to get White Knight and some of the 2 or 3 mana kinghts with first strike. There relatively cheap and if they die its no big deal, but you can stack them up to block bigger creatures without a scratch (good 'ole first strike)

[Chowlett]

no, MtG:Online is 7th Edition onwards. I have apprentice kicking about somewhere, but the problem with that is that there's no constraint on what cards you can put in your decks...

[Jaakko]

For 5-colour decks you'd need 4 of both Rampant Growth and Harrow, then maybe some Lay of the Lands. They're all common, from 7th, Invasion and Apocalypse respectively.

Here's what I have to say about the mana sources:

1 City of brass (tap for 1 of any colour, deals one damage to you whenever tapped)

Guaranteed colour, guaranteed pain. You'd better have a fast deck so the pain won't get to you.

7 Nomadic Elf (1G 2/2 Elf, 1G: add one mana any colour)

A mana-converting bear. It's a potentially useful combination, but rarely needed.

4 Quirion Sentinel (1G 1/2 Elf, one of any colour when brought into play)

Great for a super fast R/G beatdown, not so great for mana fixing.

15 Fertile Land (1G Ench Land, when land tapped for mana, add one of any colour)

Workable, but better things are out there (like the ones I mention above).

9 Chromatic Sphere (1 Artifact, 1 tap sacrifice: add one of any colour, draw a card)

I wouldn't use these so much for mana, as I would for thinning the deck.

1 Phyrexian Altar (3 arftifact, sacrifice creature: add one of any colour)

You'll need a source of creatures too, so it's more of a combo card.

3 Archeological Dig (land, tap: 1 colourless. tap, sacrifice: 1 of any colour)

Pretty much useless except in a Terravore combo deck

7 Quirion Explorer (1G 1/1 Elf, tap: add one of any colour an opponents land could produce)

If you run out of other manaelves, then maybe. But I doubt that's ever going to happen.

1 Multani's Harmony (G ench Creature, creature has "tap: add one of any colour")

Auuugh, this thing just screams card disadvantage!

2 mana cylix (1 artifact, 1, tap: add one of any colour)

A hard-to-destroy mana converter. I've seen worse things, but the tapping requirement kind of sucks.

3 star compass (2 artifact, tap: add one of any colour your basic lands could produce)

If your 5-colour deck needs to use double-casters, then this is the artifact to have.

1 Forsaken City (land. Doesn't untap. Remove card from hand fgrom game: untap. tap: add one of any colour)

If you have the cards to spare to untap this, you've probably lost already.

3 Necra Disciple (B 1/1 Wizard. G, tap: add one of any colour. W, tap: prevent next 1 damage to creature or player this turn)

One of the worse disciples, not recommended.

5 Ceta Disciple (as above, except cost is U, and W ability is replaced with R, tap: target creature gets +2/+0 until eot)

Another bad disciple. If you have to use one, take the one(s) that can make things fly.

5 Helionaut (2W 1/2 soldier, flying. 1, tap: add one of any colour)

Fulfills two functions, both extermely badly.

2 Abandoned outpost (Land, enters play tapped. Tap: add W. Tap, sacrifice: add one of any colour)
4 Bog Wreckage (as above for B)
6 Ravaged Highlands (as above for R)
4 Seafloor Debris (as above for U)
5 Timberland Ruins (as above for G)

Again, only useful for certain combo decks

[Jaakko]

Just noticed that bit about the Fellowship myself. Yea, it's bad. When you want to play it, you're either losing to weight of numbers anyway or you've destroyed the opposing creatures already.

And that better Odyssey card is Divine Sacrament

[MrFun]

Wow -- maybe we should create a Magic: The Gathering fan club within Apolyton.

Forgot to mention -- I remember when I constructed and played with my own version of an efficient, powerful Sliver deck. It was cool, and one of my best deck creations.

Now if I can only remember how I constructed it.