Napoleon - Page 2

Ethelred · April 26, 2002, 08:41

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7

2) The egyptian herald, who looks more like a pole dancer than an ambassador.

I always made sure that Egypt was one of the civs.

mhaupert · April 26, 2002, 13:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Thrawn05

I agree, welcome to the world of PC. Why did firaxis insert the Zulus? They started in southern Africa, yet are considered middle eastern culture. Sounds like a quick implementation of a civ to me. I'm sure there are a couple of other large African empires out there in history to insert. Wasn't Ethiopia an Egyptian rival for a while?

Nubia. As in Nubian Empire.

Cyclotron · April 26, 2002, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethelred
I always made sure that Egypt was one of the civs.

Well, at least we have our priorities straight.

What I mean is: Okay, Joan may be in for so-called "sex value," but in reality Civ2 was more "sexed up" than Civ3. Thus, those people who flame Firaxis for sexing up Civ3 really don't have a valid point (unless they went from Civ1 to Civ3 directly).

nato · April 26, 2002, 14:17

If Civ3 is sexed up, then what I consider hot is far far too demanding.

Seriously, if Joan was meant to be hot, I don't think she would have a shaved head at one point.

LordAngus · April 26, 2002, 14:19

There is an electronic database known as "Arts and Humanities Search." It provides an index of how often something is cited in webpages, acadmeic articles, books, and other sources. One could, hypothetically, run the names of various rulers through this dataabase. Those who get the most hits--De Gaulle over Joan, for example--"should" be the ruler of their respective civ.

Akka · April 26, 2002, 15:48

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7

Well, at least we have our priorities straight.

What I mean is: Okay, Joan may be in for so-called "sex value," but in reality Civ2 was more "sexed up" than Civ3. Thus, those people who flame Firaxis for sexing up Civ3 really don't have a valid point (unless they went from Civ1 to Civ3 directly).

Well, Civ3 suffers from not being able to improve that much on its ancestors, right ?
Guess so that they failed to improve sex over Civ2

Cyclotron · April 26, 2002, 15:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Akka le Vil
Guess so that they failed to improve sex over Civ2

Yeah, tell that to Coracle... or, on second thought, don't.

HazieDaVampire · April 27, 2002, 06:23

I think most countries used think of Napoleon as a kinda French Hitler, and my dad also refers to him as 'The bastard'

Akka · April 27, 2002, 08:28

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
I think most countries used think of Napoleon as a kinda French Hitler, and my dad also refers to him as 'The bastard'

It's called "jealousy" most of the time

Seriously, except for the bloody Spain war, Napoléon never was harsh on the civil populations, and more than anything helped to modernize the countries he conquered. He was ambitious, not bloodthirsty.

Thrawn05 · April 27, 2002, 13:22

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7
You didn't buy Civ2 simply because of the Senate? That seems like a pretty small gripe to pass up such a good game... why not just go Commie or Fundy?

Those two governments never played well with my style. I tend to be a builder more then a warmonger. The senate wasn't the only reason I didn't go for Civ1 or Civ2. The senate is preventing me from hijaking this thread by listing my reasons I went from Civ SNES to Civ3.

nato · April 27, 2002, 13:35

Well Napoleon definitely is not a monster like a Hitler or a Stalin (or a Mao or a Pol Pot ... geez where do all these guys come from!

). He didn't purposefully murder thousands of civilians or anything, so I don't think it is fair to put him with Hitler.

And he did help modernize and reform places, and the code Napoleon is still a basis for laws in some places, I think.

However, he isn't all innocent either. Somehow, someway, he found it necesary to start wars all over the place. Maybe some of the wars were not his fault, but when one guy is involved in sooo many, you have to start figuring maybe it has something to do with him! So he is responsible for a lot of wars and all the killing and misery that causes.

So I would say definitely not evil like a Hitler, but guilty of starting a lot of wars.

Akka · April 27, 2002, 14:26

Quote:

So I would say definitely not evil like a Hitler, but guilty of starting a lot of wars

You would be surprised, but the only wars he started were the Spain war and the campaign of Russia. All the others were started by his enemies.
Of course, they had some reasons, as he was constantly trying to improve its domination through many ways (economy, politics...).

nato · April 27, 2002, 14:34

I expected a response like that. That is why I said "Maybe some of the wars were not his fault, but when one guy is involved in sooo many, you have to start figuring maybe it has something to do with him! "

Seriously, you think he just HAPPENED to get into wars with everyone? Poor innocent peaceful Napoleon, minding his own business!

edit: I don't want to sound harsh, like I said I didn't think he was evil. But I think he was definitely causing most of the wars. Like Egypt and all the times he conquered Italy. Also when he refused to let France's borders return to the way they were, he knew that meant the other powers would invade ... and when he returned from Elba, he must have known that would start a war too ... he's no innocent.

Your post just sounds to me like blaming France and Britain for starting WWII by declaring war on Germany ... not quite right.

Andrew Cory · April 27, 2002, 16:20

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
Your post just sounds to me like blaming France and Britain for starting WWII by declaring war on Germany ... not quite right.

"Defenders always start the wars. The guy on the offense just wants to conquor, he dosn't want a war..."
[paraphrasing] -Sethra Lavode

Akka · April 27, 2002, 18:02

Nato, have you read the entirety of my message ?

Just in case, I'll requote it :

"Of course, they had some reasons, as he was constantly trying to improve its domination through many ways (economy, politics...)."

Don't looks like a victimization in my mind.

nato · April 27, 2002, 18:25

Ok, sounds fine. I just think Napoleon was more to blame for starting the wars than the nations responding to him ...

I don't want to seem to be starting a war myself!

In any event starting wars makes him great Civ leader material!

Ethelred · April 27, 2002, 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Cory

"Defenders always start the wars. The guy on the offense just wants to conquor, he dosn't want a war..."
[paraphrasing] -Sethra Lavode

Such a source. A fictional general vampire sorceress.

Should make a great sig.

Akka · April 27, 2002, 19:03

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
Ok, sounds fine. I just think Napoleon was more to blame for starting the wars than the nations responding to him ...

I would tend to agree, except for the war of 1802 that was clearly started by the UK.
Others were mainly attempt of self-preservation from other European countries that wished to keep their power.

But Napoléon has his legend with him, he looks like the New Man shattering the base of the Old Regime

(and well, he just got more charisma that the old Metternich)

Inverse Icarus · April 27, 2002, 19:30

maybe i'm a dumb american, but didnt napoleon spread the napoleonic code across europe, effectively planting the seeds for democracy?

stupid democracy.

Lawrence of Arabia · April 27, 2002, 20:06

Jean-Marie LePen's political party's patron saint is Jeanne D'Arc.

Akka · April 27, 2002, 20:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Jean-Marie LePen's political party's patron saint is Jeanne D'Arc.

So what ?

Lawrence of Arabia · April 27, 2002, 20:49

Take it for whatever it's worth to you. I'm just stating something I learned today.

Denday · April 27, 2002, 21:39

could they make a mod so you could choose which country and which face to go with it
be better than all this hassale

Akka · April 27, 2002, 22:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Take it for whatever it's worth to you. I'm just stating something I learned today.

Russian's communist's political party's symbol is a hammer.
Guess than hammers are communists then ?

Zachriel · April 27, 2002, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
maybe i'm a dumb american, but didnt napoleon spread the napoleonic code across europe, effectively planting the seeds for democracy?

Yes, that's right. Then he betrayed the Republic by setting himself up as a new king and emperor. He should have followed the example of a truly great man, George Washington, who when faced with the opportunity for total power, declined.

Inverse Icarus · April 27, 2002, 23:18

well that doesn't change the fact that he went throughtout europe and set up the ideas to revolt from the monarchies and create what we know as the free world.

good point though.

Ninot · April 27, 2002, 23:25

Well, Napoleon wasn't exactly that long after Washington and (thinking in Civ3 terms) the history books featuring Washington's stories would probably have taken too long to come to France by see, so Napoleon got frustrated and switched governments.

Andrew Cory · April 28, 2002, 03:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Ethelred

Such a source. A fictional general vampire sorceress.

Should make a great sig.

Which? Your line about it? Or the line itself?
Beyond that, there _is_ a certain amount of sense to it...

Ethelred · April 28, 2002, 04:33

The line you sorta quoted of course.

Sethra is the voice of the pragamatist in most cases. One of the better characters in the series. I just wish Brust could develop better stories outside of it. He is doing a good job of going on after he seemed to have hit a dead end. His two Dumas inspired books just aren't as good but the do give a nice pre-history to the Vlad Taltos stuff.

Jethro83 · April 28, 2002, 07:12

For those of you stumped by ccm01's apparant lack of leaderheads on his site (as he turned it into a baseball one), you will be able to find them at:

http://civ3.gidustin.net/

And that includes his Napoleon leaderhead. Now you don't have to sit here and whinge about Joan of Arc ruling France.

Though you might want to edit diplomacy.txt, unless you want Napoleon blurting out "Holy France welcomes you" and all that religious claptrap Joan says. I can't imagine Napoleon like that.