Thread Tools
Old April 26, 2002, 14:20   #1
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
FIRAXIS! Please fix this in your next patch!
I really hate it when my city automatically switch its production tile automatically when pollution strikes. Since I have enough workers to clean up all pollution in the current turn anyway, please don't switch my production to another tile. Now, I have to go into each of my cities that were polluted and change them back to what they were.

Thank you in advance.
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 26, 2002, 14:39   #2
asleepathewheel
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
Local Time: 18:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: listening too long to one song
Posts: 7,395
This happens (I think) becuase no work can be done on the square until the pollution is cleaned up.

how is the game supposed to know when something is polluted, that it will only take one turn to clean? Sometimes it takes me several turns, especially early on and on a unroaded mountain. I would rather have the guy shifted than loose productivity and someone starve.
asleepathewheel is offline  
Old April 26, 2002, 14:42   #3
asleepathewheel
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
Local Time: 18:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: listening too long to one song
Posts: 7,395
though I can see your point, if you want the city to starve, you should be able to keep that person working the field in the pollution, just not getting any benefit.

and after a while of working the polluted square, he could mutate or something. that would be c00l
asleepathewheel is offline  
Old April 26, 2002, 16:48   #4
Fitz
King
 
Fitz's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: & Anarchist
Posts: 1,689
In alpha centauri they had a 0 production symbol that showed when a worker was on a square that was not producting anything. They could easily re-implement that, and allow workers to be assigned to polluted sqares. However, I bet folks would start posting : "FIRAXIS! Please fix this in your next patch! My workers don't move automatically when a square gets polluted."

It is annoying to you (and me) to move them pack, but I bet the average (non-poly) player is more than happy to pay little attention to their city tiles being used, but would be annoyed if their city started starving because "that stupid worker is too dumb to move off of a tile that produces nothing".
__________________
Fitz. (n.) Old English
1. Child born out of wedlock.
2. Bastard.
Fitz is offline  
Old April 26, 2002, 16:51   #5
asleepathewheel
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Emperor
 
Local Time: 18:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: listening too long to one song
Posts: 7,395
Quote:
Originally posted by Fitz


It is annoying to you (and me) to move them pack, but I bet the average (non-poly) player is more than happy to pay little attention to their city tiles being used, but would be annoyed if their city started starving because "that stupid worker is too dumb to move off of a tile that produces nothing".
that's true. perhaps the best thing would be to just implement this as a preference under the city governor? that way satisfying both camps?
asleepathewheel is offline  
Old April 26, 2002, 17:28   #6
PGM
Prince
 
PGM's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 334
Re: FIRAXIS! Please fix this in your next patch!
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonsinger
I really hate it when my city automatically switch its production tile automatically when pollution strikes. Since I have enough workers to clean up all pollution in the current turn anyway, please don't switch my production to another tile. Now, I have to go into each of my cities that were polluted and change them back to what they were.
This is very annoying indeed. Much more annoying than the simple fact of having to clean up pollution. That's one of the reasons the late game can be so boring - you go from having to make interesting and challenging strategic decisions in the early game to working FOR pollution-related issues later on.

Maybe a sollution could be to postpone pollution effects under some conditions, ie, let the worker stay in the polluted tile for the whole turn, and if it is not cleaned by the end of the turn, he'll then have to change to another one.
If some people don't like this, then it could be implemented as a new option and not a rule.
PGM is offline  
Old April 26, 2002, 18:18   #7
roalan
Warlord
 
Local Time: 18:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Newton,Ma.U.S.A.
Posts: 205
next patch
Also kindly include a map of real earth with actual starting positions..
roalan is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 10:45   #8
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Fitz
It is annoying to you (and me) to move them pack, but I bet the average (non-poly) player is more than happy to pay little attention to their city tiles being used, but would be annoyed if their city started starving because "that stupid worker is too dumb to move off of a tile that produces nothing".
Yes, I am the average (non-poly) player that you are talking about. In most of my games, I have over 400 workers working overtime to clean up all polutions within the same turn.

Last edited by Moonsinger; April 30, 2002 at 10:54.
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 10:51   #9
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally posted by asleepathewheel
how is the game supposed to know when something is polluted, that it will only take one turn to clean? Sometimes it takes me several turns, especially early on and on a unroaded mountain. I would rather have the guy shifted than loose productivity and someone starve.
Solution: The computer should wait until the end of turn to shift workers different tile. That way, it gives us a chance to deal with poluttion first.
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 10:52   #10
deanrasche
Settler
 
Local Time: 23:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 2
methinks you guys just need more workers....
deanrasche is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 10:58   #11
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally posted by deanrasche
methinks you guys just need more workers....
You are missing the point. I have enough workers to clean up all pollution within the same turn. Therefore, I hate it when the computer shifting my people to different tiles automatically at the beginning of every tuns. Since I have over 225 major cities, it's hard to track down the ones that have just been shifted (so I can shift it back to the ways they were).
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 11:12   #12
Alex
Emperor
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brasil
Posts: 3,958
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonsinger

Since I have over 225 major cities, ...
225 major cities?!

I think it is incredible that you play the game at all...
Alex is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 11:12   #13
ACooper
Prince
 
ACooper's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In a dark and scary hole!
Posts: 728
methinks you micromanage to much.......


but if that's the way you like to play, then I back this idea also.
__________________
Sorry....nothing to say!
ACooper is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 11:12   #14
Nikolai
Apolyton UniversityC4DG The Mercenary TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
Nikolai's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 13,800
You have 255 cities, and you call yourself an average player? How do you cope with the corruption?

255 cities... Hey, this reminds me about Civ2! Are you in the wrong forum?
__________________
Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God. -Isaiah 41:10
The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing. - Zephaniah 3:17
Get The List for cIV here!
Nikolai is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 11:14   #15
Nikolai
Apolyton UniversityC4DG The Mercenary TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
Nikolai's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 13,800
Heh, 3 persons posting at the same time, that must be some kind of record?
__________________
Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God. -Isaiah 41:10
The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing. - Zephaniah 3:17
Get The List for cIV here!
Nikolai is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 12:20   #16
Alex
Emperor
 
Alex's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brasil
Posts: 3,958
Nah, I beat both of you by tenths of second...
Alex is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 12:48   #17
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexnm
225 major cities?!

I think it is incredible that you play the game at all...
Didn't you know that I'm the current world record holder? The save games can be located at this link:

http://www.geocities.com/nancymoonsi...civ3/civ3.html

PS: I lost count after 225.
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 12:51   #18
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Nikolai
You have 255 cities, and you call yourself an average player? How do you cope with the corruption?

255 cities... Hey, this reminds me about Civ2! Are you in the wrong forum?
No, I'm not in the wrong forum. If you like proof, take a look at those save games at my site.
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 13:01   #19
lockstep
Apolyton University
King
 
lockstep's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
Originally posted by Nikolai
255 cities... Hey, this reminds me about Civ2! Are you in the wrong forum?
IIRC, you couldn't have 255 cities in Civ2. At least not for more than one turn.
__________________
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
lockstep is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 13:15   #20
Akka
Prince
 
Akka's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In front of my computer.
Posts: 512
Quote:
Originally posted by lockstep


IIRC, you couldn't have 255 cities in Civ2. At least not for more than one turn.
Wasn't the upper limit at 256 ?
__________________
Science without conscience is the doom of the soul.
Akka is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 13:26   #21
Nikolai
Apolyton UniversityC4DG The Mercenary TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
Nikolai's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:37
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 13,800
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonsinger


No, I'm not in the wrong forum. If you like proof, take a look at those save games at my site.
Oh...well...oh, all right then!

And yes, I think the limit was somewhere around 255.
__________________
Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God. -Isaiah 41:10
The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing. - Zephaniah 3:17
Get The List for cIV here!
Nikolai is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 14:56   #22
luegner
Settler
 
Local Time: 15:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 8
Solution to Pollution Problem
Personally I think the pollution problem can be addressed quite easily. The rules can stay the same where the pollution forces resources to reallocate BUT the game engine could be smart enough to reshift resources back to the polluted square if the square was previously be used as a resource. I have noticed some kind of intelligence in the game engine in that the game will choose the most productive squares and what not. If pollution was cleaned and that square is more productive than another square, then it shouldn't be a problem for the resources to shift back just like they were originally shifted when the pollution appeared. That's my 2 cents.
luegner is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 15:16   #23
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Re: Solution to Pollution Problem
Quote:
Originally posted by luegner
Personally I think the pollution problem can be addressed quite easily. The rules can stay the same where the pollution forces resources to reallocate BUT the game engine could be smart enough to reshift resources back to the polluted square if the square was previously be used as a resource. I have noticed some kind of intelligence in the game engine in that the game will choose the most productive squares and what not. If pollution was cleaned and that square is more productive than another square, then it shouldn't be a problem for the resources to shift back just like they were originally shifted when the pollution appeared. That's my 2 cents.
It's not as easy as it sounds. For example, when popution strike on your glassland square, the computer will automatically change its resource to another square, let's say "a hill with a gold mine on top of it". Unless, you specfically tell the AI governor that you want to produce food instead of gold, the computer would never know how to shift back to the glassland tile.

Morever, I have never used those AI governors. Those AIs are so stupid. If I tell them to produce food, they will only care about producing food and not happiness and so on.
Moonsinger is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 16:19   #24
luegner
Settler
 
Local Time: 15:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 8
Issue with AI governor?
Perhaps that's the problem. Maybe it's not that the AI governor is stupid but that when you tell it to produce food, it still doesn't reallocate the resource after the pollution has been cleaned up to the food producing square.

In my mind, most cities you build, you want to grow except for those select few which are placed on tundra and don't have a fart's chance in a windstorm of growing because you can't transform landscape like you could in civ2.

So they need to fix the AI governor in this case I would think.
luegner is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 19:06   #25
Coracle
Prince
 
Coracle's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 915
AI governors remind me of Rainman - but dumber.
Coracle is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 21:42   #26
kimmygibler
Warlord
 
Local Time: 16:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 236
Simple rule, move the worker back as soon as any pollution is cleared up.
kimmygibler is offline  
Old April 30, 2002, 22:51   #27
dawidge
Warlord
 
dawidge's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally posted by kimmygibler
Simple rule, move the worker back as soon as any pollution is cleared up.
Better yet, whenever a sector undergoes a change, the governor(s) of nearby cit[y/ies] should reevaluate whether or not to use that sector.

And while you're at it, Firaxis, it'd be nice if the Luxuries slider triggered this, too. As it stands, whenever I twiddle my luxuries, I have to go into the governor, turn off mood management, tap the center square on each city, and reactivate mood management.

I do this because sometimes spending money on luxuries gets you a profit. Other times it is so cheap that the gain in shields and food far outweigh the paltry cost (I've seen a gain of 2 foo and 1 shield per city for a net cost of 6 gold).

And the draft... (whether or not to use it is in a different thread)

And just about anything I do that might effect the mood of the city.
dawidge is offline  
Old May 1, 2002, 00:49   #28
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
Just to add my $.02...

I agree it shouldn't automatically switch the resources off.

However, even more pressing for me is that there is no way to reduce the pollution of a city to 0 past a certain point of the game. While I know everyone will chime in with notions of realism because of traffic/people, etc...In my games I want a perfect future with no pollution.

SO I think the editor should have the ability to switch pollution totally off for a game, or you can make the pollution cleaning improvements 100% effective. It should at least be an option. I hate late game pollution hopping, it seriously detracts from the fun of the game. It's an exercise in tedium.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo č burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
Old May 1, 2002, 09:24   #29
Moonsinger
Warlord
 
Local Time: 17:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
However, even more pressing for me is that there is no way to reduce the pollution of a city to 0 past a certain point of the game.
Not even if your city (of size 13 or higher has no factory of any kind) has both the Mass Transit and the Recyling Center? I notice that if my city doesn't have a factory, the Mass Transit will reduce pollution down to 1. I wonder if adding a recyling center will reduce pollution to zero?
Moonsinger is offline  
Old May 1, 2002, 09:31   #30
Boris Godunov
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Boris Godunov's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:37
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonsinger

Not even if your city (of size 13 or higher has no factory of any kind) has both the Mass Transit and the Recyling Center? I notice that if my city doesn't have a factory, the Mass Transit will reduce pollution down to 1. I wonder if adding a recyling center will reduce pollution to zero?
Not if you either have a factory or if the city is beyond a certain size. I'm not complaining about the realism...but I want the choice in the editor to switch pollution off so I'm not playing a game of "Civ3 Pollution Control" by the end of it.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo č burla
Boris Godunov is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 19:37.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright Š The Apolyton Team