What are the most powerful and influential countries?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Serb


Chechenians?
Most of the mercenaries just returned to Afghanistan to defend their HQ. Chechnya was like a foreign office of Taliban while Afghanistan was a HQ of Taliban. Everyone who thinks that we oppress poor freedom fighters in Chechnya is just a brainwashed person. We fought there with the same guys you fight in Afghanistan- international terrorists. Well known, famous international terrorists, like arab Hattab who was eliminated not long ago by our Special forces in Chechnya, like Raduev who now in jail and remains there forever. The only remaining legendary leader of terrorists is Basaev, but soon will get him too. He already lost his leg when he runs with tail between his legs from our army. Those three bastards is responsible for innumerous terrorist acts, for death of thousands people. They have the same methods, about 2 years ago they bombed department civilian houses in Moscow and other Russian cities, hundreds of civilians were killed. At Sept. 11 they killed thousands of civilians in New York. The same terrorist school- the same terrorist methods.

Serb, I like most Americans, did not fully understand Russia's war against terrorism in Chechnya until those same terrorists hit us. But now that we do understand it, let me say that I am, now, 100% behind Russia.

Let me also say that never, not once that I recall, did the American media report the terrorist roots (al Qaida) of the Chechenian Islamic fundamentalists. In fact, American media protrayed them as "freedom fighters" against the Russian Empire. The press openly questioned whether the bombings in Moscow were staged by Russia herself!

It is good to have Russia and America as allies once again.

Ned

[Kitschum]

I just mean to clarify a few things, not to take up a position either way in your little argument.

Originally posted by Serb

This is not a specific type of tax, but a general taxation system.
The question is about- you said that Slavs didn’t have their own state. I dare to say that they have such state and were more advanced in social life then Vikings. The fact that Vikings don’t know anything about taxation system and took that system from Slavs is prove a lot.

I'd never heard the word "poludye" before, so I looked it up in a few dictionaries (of Old Norse) but couldn't find anything. Can you be more specific as to what word or taxation system you mean? The only Norse word I could find even remotely similar in meaning and sound is "polotusvarf," which means "palace-running." It was a privilege of the Varangian Guard in Constantinople, at the start of a new reign, to get to run through the palace treasury without stopping and grab what they could. It comes from the word polota = palace. Then, this is not my field so I may have missed something.

Of course, it's ludicrous to claim that the Vikings didn't know anything about taxation. Skattr = tax, and is a word with relatives in many Germanic languages: German, Old English, Dutch, etc.

The Vikings were not traders, I don’t know where you get this, they were pillagers and bandits.

"Vikings" is a bad term, IMHO, regardless what you mean by it. They (Norse people) definitely were traders as well, especially in the East, since they had to use smaller and fewer ships on the Eastern rivers than on the open seas in the West. Any book or encyclopedia can tell you this.

In that case there was mentions in historical documents about invasion of Vikings. There was no ANY mention that Vikings conquered Slavs.

The "Vikings" in question - Rurik, etc. didn't conquer the Slavs, they were invited. Not to forget, there was lots of contact; i.e. intermarriages between Norse and Slavic families during these times. Most likely, the "Vikings" were a small aristocracy, and assimilated very quickly.

Cheers,

(EDIT: Reread it & clarified the dictionary part. Happy May Day, Serb & everyone else!)

[Heresson]

"If you turn it this way, then yes it because of you. Thanks.

Note; Romanows were theoretically Polish dynasty too.
I don't understand why we do not count them. At least Alexander I
(second in Poland) should be counted. He liked Poles, and wanted to convert
to catholicism. If the pope would have hurried and didn't send a priest to him
too late, today You would be a catholic too...

"Actually you received very big casualties during siege, and capture it only when destroy one of the walls of the fortress. So, its received pretty big amount of damage.

Still, by continuing th fight we might have damaged it even more.
Shortly after start of the siege came Russian emissaries proposing
dethronisation of tzar Szujski and making Wladyslaw the tzar. We counted
we would get Smole?sk without capturing it.

"That?s because of our military spirit, mysterious Russian soul and Russian readiness to sacrifice their lives for Mother Russia.

for mother USSR that is. Anyway that's no military spirit.

"Oh sure, robbing is such a nice goal.

It isn't. But it doesn't threat your being as a state.

"So what was about it? This space station remains on orbit about 15 years, instead of planned 3 years. Then we sink it because it's becomes too old, every spaceship ends this day.

Imagine You bought a cake. And You realise it is decayed.
You come back to the shop in which You bought it and they say;
It is decayed. Of course. Every cake has to decay one day.
But until worms will eat it through, You can try to treat it as if it was new...

"Perhaps we didn?t wanted to rule the World,

Oh really...

"but wait a minute; the history is not over yet.

You tend o loose your lands and your influence, not to gain it.

"You know that this is not true. What, Mongols were weak opponents? Why they are not occupied the same lands now? We have a lot of enemies through our history, and we weren?t always so big in terms of lands and population.

This big as You are now You weren't. But You were big.
Mongols were enemies to your enemies too. Anyway, they just wanted to subdue You
and suck money from You. They didn't try to destroy You completely and that was their mistake.
Hordes have natural cycle of growing in power and falling apart. Such enemy is pesky, very pesky,
but not as dangerous as a civilization that can make You a part of itself.

"All those cities were independent city-states and no doubt gathering of Russian lands around Moscow was bloody conquest of those independent cities by Moscow?s prince.

Conquering other states of the same language and culture is much easier than
states of other culture and other language.

"This concept can easily justify any type of aggression.

I know, he he he

"I don?t. He was very cruel monster.

As each of Russian tzars ;P

" If they thought so, then they never were involved in this. The French and Brits signed a secret agreement, by this agreements Russia was divided between them. Consider the international blockade of Soviet Russia and their support of White army. I think they thought that they will be successful in their goal.

Soviet propaganda. They just wanted to crush revolution and didn't realise
that it can't be done. I believe in no French-English pact about partaging Russia.
Note; when Poles and Ukrainians liberated Kijow (kiev), they started shouting;
"hands off Russia". It means that they are not only ignorants, but also they wanted
to keep former tzarate in possibly not changed shape.

" Yep. I think Germans should thank you. If not Warsaw?s battle, then Red army probably reached Berlin and helped German communists to establish a communist?s state.

Hitler liked Pilsudzki in fact. During the war he had guards by his grave.
But Pilsudzki didn't like Hitler. Unlike Stalin.

"It means that finally we?ve lost them in 1918.

No difference; we had to fight for freedom against Germans, not against You.

"We never were Catholics and I wonder if Serbs or Bulgarians ever were.

They were obeying Roman patriarchate for some time.

" No, only not Finland, not anymore. We better bribe them somehow to put they on our side. We have many common with Finns, Russians love to jump in piles of snow after saunas too,

But we must start from something...?
Sweden?

" I don't know about the rest, but the link between the word "slave" about the people and the word "slave" about the situation exists.
I THINK (not sure) it comes from the Roman Empire where the slavic where considered barbarians and only bringed in the empire under slavery.

I don't know if a name "Slav" is ever referred to Slavs.
But in Arabic, a word for a slave comes out of Slav or the other way round for sure.

Ned, Tchechenians are not terrorists.
Some of them are. But they have right to fight for freedom the same as Palestinians have.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil


I don't know about the rest, but the link between the word "slave" about the people and the word "slave" about the situation exists.

The word "slave" and the word "Slav" has nothing common.

I THINK (not sure) it comes from the Roman Empirwhere the slavic where considered barbarians and only bringed in the empire under slavery

In times of Roman empire there was no Slavs at all. The lands wich were later poulated by Slavs, in times of Roman empire were populatad by other tribes known as "Skifs". The Skifs were the ancencesters of Slavs, not the Vikings, but in times of Roman empire there was no Slavs at all, and there was no word "Slav".

[Heresson]

Thta's what I ment

[Serb]

Originally posted by mindseye
Actually, I do have an idea. I live in a place where that happened more than once recently.

EDIT: You are UNlucky then. I didn’t understand your post yesterday, (too much beer I guess)
So, what do you mean? What is the name of this place?

Unfortunately, Chinese businessmen still often place too much importance on price and too little on quality. But they are learning quickly.

Living so long in China you should realise that Chenese are very wise people. They don't by a crap, they always choose the best from criterium- price/quality.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ned
But now that we do understand it, let me say that I am, now, 100% behind Russia.

Thanks

It is good to have Russia and America as allies once again.

Yes, it's very good.

[Serb]

Kitschum, Heresson,
I really don't have time write now. It's pretty late and today is May 1, it is the holiday in Russia. I realy should to go write now, to go on party.
I've just walked in this Internet cafe by chance, and I realy should to go write now. But I promise I'll answer on your posts later.
Have a nice party guys.

[TCO]

Sikander, there is no point in discussing history with a Soviet. They have read too many lies over the years. Just look at their media.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Heresson
"Ned, Tchechenians are not terrorists.
Some of them are. But they have right to fight for freedom the same as Palestinians have.

Heresson, certainly this was the view put forth by American media during the conflict. But, not only did those "freedom fighters" blow up civilian targets in Moscow, they invaded neighboring Dagestan.

Russians asked the government of Chechnya to suppress the terrorists. However, the government of Chechnya instead sheltered the terrorists just like the Taliban.

Had Chenchya chosen to live peacefully with their neighbors, they would still be an independent state. Instead they chose the path of aggressive war, not so much as to acquire territory, but to spead a fundamentalist Islamic faith.

Ned

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ned
Heresson, certainly this was the view put forth by American media during the conflict. But, not only did those "freedom fighters" blow up civilian targets in Moscow, they invaded neighboring Dagestan.

Did that give the Russian Army the right to use vaccum bombs on cities?

[Ned]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Did that give the Russian Army the right to use vaccum bombs on cities?

Did they?

However, your implicit point is that they targeted a civilian population in a city instead of military defending a city.

We have the same issue, I believe, with Jenin. The accusations fly, but what is the truth?

Ned

[Akka]

Originally posted by Serb

The word "slave" and the word "Slav" has nothing common.

Their roots.

In times of Roman empire there was no Slavs at all. The lands wich were later poulated by Slavs, in times of Roman empire were populatad by other tribes known as "Skifs". The Skifs were the ancencesters of Slavs, not the Vikings, but in times of Roman empire there was no Slavs at all, and there was no word "Slav".

Well, tell what you want, but my dictionnary tell me that "slav" comes from medieval latin "sclavus" which means "slave".
Now if you feel so deeply wounded because some Roman people who died several centuries ago called you after their slaves...

[David Floyd]

David,
You’ve bean hit in your head too often. You should abandon kickboxing as soon as possible before you become a complete idiot.

See, the vital difference between the Russian and German or Brit militaries is that while Germany/Britain can afford a large-scale deployment/mobilization, and have working equipment and a good logistics system, Russia has none of that, and can't afford it anyway, besides which morale is far too low in the Russian military

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ned
However, your implicit point is that they targeted a civilian population in a city instead of military defending a city.

We have the same issue, I believe, with Jenin. The accusations fly, but what is the truth?

Vaccum Bombs aren't used for pinpoint strikes.

[Heresson]

" But, not only did those "freedom fighters" blow up civilian targets in Moscow, they invaded neighboring Dagestan.

That they do sth wrong doesn't mean that their fight for main target, freedom of Tchechenia, isn't justified. If someone commits a sin, do all of his deeds count as sins?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Heresson
" But, not only did those "freedom fighters" blow up civilian targets in Moscow, they invaded neighboring Dagestan.

That they do sth wrong doesn't mean that their fight for main target, freedom of Tchechenia, isn't justified. If someone commits a sin, do all of his deeds count as sins?

Heresson, Chechnya had won its war against Russia. They were independent and at peace. But when they began trying to conquer neighboring states, a war of freedom turned into a war of aggression. I think Russia had no choice but to defend itself from attack.

This would almost be like the original American colonies trying to conquer Canada after having won its freedom from England. The first was a struggle for freedom. The second a war of aggression.

Ned

[Heresson]

I don't say that it wasn't agression.
But now to say that as some extremists of theirs made scuh attack and that's why I stop supporting them and think Russians can do there hat they want isn't a good thing to do.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Heresson
I don't say that it wasn't agression.
But now to say that as some extremists of theirs made scuh attack and that's why I stop supporting them and think Russians can do there hat they want isn't a good thing to do.

We are having this same discussion concerning Israel and the Palestinians, aren't we. I just hope that we are all consistent in our views.

If Chechnya behaves, the Russians should allow them to go free at some time in the future. But first, the fighting must come to an end. Do you agree?

Ned

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
This would almost be like the original American colonies trying to conquer Canada after having won its freedom from England. The first was a struggle for freedom. The second a war of aggression

You mean like they did in 1775 and 1812?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
You mean like they did in 1775 and 1812?

We invaded in 1775? What areas?

[David Floyd]

We did, DD...can't recall exactly where right offhand, but we did invade Canada in the Revolution...

[Alinestra Covelia]

In this day and age, military might is not as important as diplomatic leverage, economic influence, and scientific progress. Thus, I would argue that China's largest army status is not particularly relevant. Whilst they could probably wage a very ferocious defensive war, China's offensive strike capability is undeveloped and furthermore there does not appear to be much effort going towards developing this further (beyond rocket capabilities).

Even with military might toned down to its more modern level, America is still by far the most powerful country. In number two place, Japan possesses a strong economy (by any standards except for its own), an adequate military, and scientific parity with America.

From there onwards, you have a choice between several nations, and can choose between present might or projected future potential.

Of all the developing nations, China is best placed for rapid economic growth and may evolve into a nation that poses an economic counterpoise to America. Chinese technology is still lagging behind those of the southeastern "tiger" nations and China has un uphill battle before it can hope for parity. Of course, it's possible, but will require considerable resources and may need something of an administration small miracle.

While China becomes more of a market driven economy, it has retained its authoritarian political system - an unusual mixture, and one that has drawn political condemnation from the West whilst attracting considerable economic interest. Whether or not this same resistance to political reform will continue into the fourth political generation post-Jiang Zemin remains to be seen... perhaps with a new wave of leaders who have not experienced the early days of the Communist Party, reforms may become ideologically easier to speed.

In any case, the question is a fascinating one and one that I believe requires a new outlook than naked competition. The world today is no longer the colonial frontier of the 1800s, nor is it the bipolar battlefield of the Cold War and late 1900s. Now if one country takes an economic spill, the negative effects could spread to all others and will largely outweigh any potential gain to them. I think it's a mistake to view another country as a rival or competitor, especially in this day and age when any government worth its salt recognizes that it cannot do without the support and intercourse of others.

Maybe in 50 years we'll see a strong Sino-US economic and cultural exchange. For two large countries, it's not a bad way to go.

[Heresson]

If Chechnya behaves, the Russians should allow them to go free at some time in the future. But first, the fighting must come to an end. Do you agree?

It depends on what You mean as the end of the fighting.
Russia will nver let Tchechenia go free. It fears that then, every other part of their "federation" would want to separate.

[Ecthy]

As a matter of fact, we will set Poland free one day, if they behave that is.

[SlowwHand]

Just wanted to pop in, and make sure the Republic of Texas was listed.

[David Floyd]

[Heresson]

" As a matter of fact, we will set Poland free one day, if they behave that is

Poor German, You even don't realise that your state is slowly being taken over by Polish mafia...

[Ecthy]

They make you believe that. Propaganda and brainwashing are not unusual means of power in developing countries. In fact the whole Brandt thing was made up, and as we speak your country is begging on its knees for forgiveness to us.

[Serb]

I'd never heard the word "poludye" before, so I looked it up in a few dictionaries (of Old Norse) but couldn't find anything. Can you be more specific as to what word or taxation system you mean?

“Poludye”- this is how it’s sounds on Russian. I recommend to you to look for word “Poluta” in your dictionary, it’s sounds like Slav’s “Poludye” or “poluda”. (I don’t know how to type it properly using Latin letters.) Anyway, I’m not a linguist, so I can’t defend this argument. I’ve just read that in Sweden documents of medieval period this word was used for taxes.

Of course, it's ludicrous to claim that the Vikings didn't know anything about taxation. Skattr = tax, and is a word with relatives in many Germanic languages: German, Old English, Dutch, etc

Ok, ok, I’ve exaggerated a bit.

They (Norse people) definitely were traders as well…

As for me, they were more warriors then traders.

The "Vikings" in question - Rurik, etc. didn't conquer the Slavs, they were invited. Not to forget, there was lots of contact; i.e. intermarriages between Norse and Slavic families during these times. Most likely, the "Vikings" were a small aristocracy, and assimilated very quickly.

Agreed.