Lagging badly in Science - Help

[Big Willy]

Am hoping some of you more seasoned Civ players can help me out.

Just started playing, and I get badly behind in science in the early-mid game in my rush to grab land (which I would have to assume is the most important thing early on).

Typically, in the early game, I just build a bunch of settlers, the odd worker to get some early mines, and then start looking to build temples and granaries to all the cities to break pop 3. It usually takes a while to get around 10 cities, which is usually about when all the land is taken up.

In the meantime, I'm progressing towards either Monarchy or Republic to get out of despotism, while trying to build colosseums, city walls, etc.

But I always find myself way behind in technology.

Good case in point, game playing now, I'm in the middle game, and my score is the best of all the nations. But I'm very slowly building towards Monarchy (that's how far behind I am).

What's the key to a more balanced advance, with land grab and science? The only thing I could think of doing different is building a lot more workers early and building tonnes of roads to generate more commerce.

Any advice appreciated...thanks.

[zulu9812]

Well, you can control your scientific spending from the domestic advisor, spending more money researches faster. Libraries, universities and research labs add 50% to the research output of the city it's built in. Finally, in the city manager screen you can assign citizens as scientists, which also increases that city's research output.

Thus, the key to research is money. Money is generated by production - a size 12 city producing Wealth surrounded by mines will give you extras cash to spend on science. Additionally, the more cities you have, the more cash you generate - so your strategy of early expansion isn't necessarily a bad one.

[Playa del Carmen]

Also, try playing on a higher difficulty level.

[Metaliturtle]

This may sound counter-productive, but when you get about 8 cities, make your science 10% and just buy techs from the AI, when you have all of their techs, max out your sci, and sell techs to the AI for money. This works best with about 5 other civs to trade with IMO

[Skanky Burns]

If you have a city with a spare population point, turn him into a scientist and put your research down to 0%.
Then with all your extra money, you can just buy massive amounts of techs from the AI. The population you turned into a scientist will ensure that you research techs at the minimum rate, despite spending nothing on science, and will even allow you to research during anarchy !

[Free_Mumia]

Don't build mines until you enter monarchy or some other government. Under Despotism there's a limit to how many shields you can produce per tile so building a mine will not affect how many shields you make under despotism. To get more commerce (i.e. faster science) build roads in every square.

[punkbass2000]

I disagree. I always mine grasslands at the beginning. They are unaffected by the despotism limitation.

[ixnay]

On my last game in emperor, I wasn't even midway through the industrial age by the time that the other civs reached the modern era. I still managed to win a space race victory, by joining up with groups of civs that would go to war with everyone and by selling all of my extra resources. Eventually I managed to sell some excess uranium to the americans for 108 gold/turn. So I cranked up my science rate and rushed for the space race. The bottom line: Don't despair if you are seemingly hopelessly far behind in techs.

[Cookie Monster]

I agree with turning science down to 10% or even to 0% and maxing out cash.

In the past I stubbornly tried to set my science as high as possible while still maintaining a positive cash flow. There was no way to keep up with the AI using this method. So now in the early game I just buy techs from everyone.

Later, when your cities have grown and you add marketplaces and libraries you can try turning up the science rate. Just remember to always look for a tech deal on the market. When you buy techs, or other items, from the AI his attitude towards you improves.

Have fun and good luck!

[LaRusso]

lower ai to ai trade rate to 115 on monarch
get GL at any cost
then max out on science and sell them techs
the only way....
i know, 1.21 is really hard on human research...

[Big Willy]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Restarted a new game, and things are going much better. Buying the techs does seem to be a far better solution than trying to manage cash and research at once.

LaRusso, how do you edit AI to AI Trade Rate? P.S. if it isn't really simple, don't bother trying to explain it - I'll have to do without ;-)

Thanks

[exeter0]

LaRusso, how do you edit AI to AI Trade Rate? P.S. if it isn't really simple, don't bother trying to explain it - I'll have to do without ;-)

In 1.21F there is a new property in the Editors Difficulty tab... reducing the AI to AI trade rate will improve the way in which AI's trade techs with the human player.

[LaRusso]

go to civ3mod and chose difficulty levels
i found 115 to work the best on monarch, but feel free to experiment. i play on standard, 12 civs (you can edit that in 'world sizes). if there are only 8 civs, it might be that you need to get a notch up. also, because i have 12 civs, i made a research a bit slower, and put a tech rate somewhere between what it usually is on standard and large maps. you will find that tech is a bit slowed down so that allows for actual use of some weapons. 12 civs makes for a very interesting diplomacy and trade.

soren did a bit of explaining on tech whoring in 'general' forum, but on 130 setting that was previously employed at monarch level, there was absolutely no tech distinction, except that i was trailing a dozen techs even to the civs that had one city only, which was ridiculous.
so, try 115, and let me know how you liked it.