A little different aproach to lethal bombard.

player1 · April 29, 2002, 08:47

Give lethal sea to fighter units ONLY (fighters, jet fighter, stealth fighter, f-15).

Why?

Bombers are STRATEGIC bombers, they bombard from SAFE distance.
Which makes them less accurate.

So this way, fighter units (tactical bombers) become more usefull, especialy f-15 and STEALTH FIGHTER.

Don't give anyting to artillery.
They are not accurate enough to destory units completly.

Nor ships, they battle form close distance, they don't bomb each other from far away distance.

This doesn't devaluate cruise missiles efficiency, since they have much better accuracy compared to fighters.

Optionaly: give lethal land to jets, f-15 and stealth fighters only. Makes tactical bombers be some sort of "finish them off untis" (they are TACTICAL bombers).

problem_child · April 29, 2002, 09:03

I agree most heartily

although I didn't give the ability to stealth fighters, it was fifty fifty on that really, I could have gone either way but decided to keep stealth fighters specialist AA combat units and leave the bomb work to jet fighters and F-15s. Call it Game Balance or Personal Taste.

player1 · April 29, 2002, 09:08

Quote:

Originally posted by problem_child
I agree most heartily

although I didn't give the ability to stealth fighters, it was fifty fifty on that really, I could have gone either way but decided to keep stealth fighters specialist AA combat units and leave the bomb work to jet fighters and F-15s. Call it Game Balance or Personal Taste.

Since you made Stealth Fighters an AA unit, that's resonable.

notyoueither · April 29, 2002, 13:54

I agree player1. Except keep the lethal land off the table.

In my opinion, no amount of bombardment will destroy a large unit. You need to go in and dig them out to finish the job. Like attacking when the unit has 1 HP left.

I copied the Figther. Called it Naval Air. Made it 2.2 4.6.3. It is the only unit with lethal sea.

player1 · April 29, 2002, 14:12

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
I agree player1. Except keep the lethal land off the table.

It doesn't need to be that bad.
Since Jets and Stealth fighter have AWFUL bombard rate.
You would need at least 3-4 bombards to kill units with already 1hp.
Ships are easier, since they are on open. No extra defense bonuses.

In city with 12+pop there is +100% bonus, fortify +25%, terreain bonus, plus chance that it won't tagret unit (targets pop 25% or building 25%).

Looking that way, it does realy pay off to go with tanks, lethal land on or off.

But, lethal land to Bombers would be UNBALANCING.

=DrJambo= · April 29, 2002, 14:35

really neat idea in concept, however, how would the AI adjust to this?

you see, the AI really favours bombers for its bombing and justifyably so considering how much better it is at the job.

convince me of this and i may adopt this idea for my mod..

player1 · April 29, 2002, 15:11

Fist, AI bombard flag needs to be enabled.

Then some playtesting will tell us what will be.

P.S.
Don't forget taht AI has a BACKUP plan called:

CRUISE MISSILES

Just add them range of 6 (like tactical nukes), and ROF of 4 (to make them a little more usefull).

I bet, that he'll use them to sink your fleet.

problem_child · April 30, 2002, 08:37

I like the idea by notyoueither of creating a new unit, with that in mind I might create a new fighter unit and rename it Torpedo Bomber. But how do I make sure the AI uses it, and only against sea units?

So far I've made a Marla-Scenario and went with Stealth-fighters as Lethal Sea bombers afterall, I dunno if the AI will subject me to a battle of Midway type situation, but I'm sure the game-balance will remain stable whether the AI torpedo-bombs the mighty German navy or not. (Lets not forget Bombers have longer range then fighters).

LaRusso · April 30, 2002, 09:05

player 1, great idea, that would really make US UU a bit better
it is a biggie, but i suggest adding it to your mod

LaRusso · April 30, 2002, 09:06

come to think about it, would that make man-o-war a bit more powerful too? nahhhhh, leave them as they are

notyoueither · April 30, 2002, 13:34

pc. Carrier Naval Air was used against land targets in invasions and raids. The Japanese Carrier Air blew the snot out of Midway Island before they found themselves under attack. They weren't all Torpedoe bombers. Thats why I put the bombardment at 4. Fighters are 2. Bombers are 8.

You could add the lethal flag to Fighters and Jet Fighters. You would need loads of them to do anything.

If you add the bombardment flag to them (F and JF) though, the AI is apt to bomb roads with them instead of setting them to Air Superiority. I already find the AI Air defences a bit on the thin side in many cases.

player1 · April 30, 2002, 19:29

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
If you add the bombardment flag to them (F and JF) though, the AI is apt to bomb roads with them instead of setting them to Air Superiority. I already find the AI Air defences a bit on the thin side in many cases.

I assume he won't stop using them for defense, he does have air superiority selected too.
In fact only bad thing would be the opposidte.
To make AI stop build bombers at all.

This all needs to be tested in several games.

P.S.
Anyway, how is American using F-15 in 1.21f?
Does he used them for both air superiority and air bombard.

=DrJambo= · April 30, 2002, 20:16

I have my jet fighters/F15s set to both and so far i have seen the AI use them in both situations ... they tend to be a little light on the defensive, but then their fighters now quite often take out my defending interceptors...

Makes it quite interesting!

Under these circumstances the AI still uses bombers to great effect!

I like your ideas on jet fighters, F15s and stealth fighters being the only ones with lethal bombard...

player1 · April 30, 2002, 20:36

Quote:

Originally posted by =DrJambo=
I like your ideas on jet fighters, F15s and stealth fighters being the only ones with lethal bombard...

Don't forget basic fighter with lethal sea bombard only.
They are like some sort of DIVE bombers.

notyoueither · April 30, 2002, 21:22

Quote:

Originally posted by player1

I assume he won't stop using them for defense, he does have air superiority selected too.
In fact only bad thing would be the opposidte.
To make AI stop build bombers at all.

This all needs to be tested in several games.

You can bomb or rebase or do recon and then set the Air Superiority mission? How do you do that?

player1 · May 1, 2002, 07:12

I think you misuderstood.

You can do only one bomb, recon or air superirity not all toghether.
I was just saying that both AI FLAGS should be seletcted.
That way AI would use some jets for defense, and other for bombards.(same for infantry for ex.)