Inside the Church of the Nativity

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 12:52

Quote:

From Salon.com

An American activist who snuck past Israeli troops to deliver food says there's plenty of illness, very little food and absolutely no militants hiding inside.

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By Douglas Cruickshank

May 3, 2002 | Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity has become the eye of the Middle East storm, with continued clashes between Israelis and Palestinians over the 200 people holed up there, even as Yasser Arafat made his way out of his newly liberated Ramallah compound and Israeli troops pull out of other West Bank cities. But amazingly on Thursday, 11 international pro-Palestinian activists managed to evade Israeli Defense Force roadblocks and gun-toting soldiers to enter the church and deliver food.

Late Thursday Salon spoke to Kristen Schurr, a member of the New York-based group Direct Action for Justice in Palestine, on one of her two cellphones just a few hours after she'd entered the church. Schurr, 33, described her group's repeated attempts to enter the church during the standoff. Activists who didn't make it in Thursday were arrested, she said.

As with everything else in the conflict, Israelis and Palestinians disagree over the situation inside the church. The Israelis say that in addition to Palestinian security personnel, church guards, civilians, peace activists and clergymen, there are gunmen and militants who are wanted by Israel in prior terror attacks. The militants, the Israelis claim, are holding at least some of the others hostage. The Palestinians deny that there are any hostages, and have proposed ending the siege by having the militants wanted by Israel brought to Jericho for trial. But Schurr, a dedicated pro-Palestinian activist, even denies there are any militants.

In a brief interview, Schurr blamed the standoff entirely on the Israelis. She's exhausted from her ordeal, but still working hard to get the word out. During the conversation, she had to stop more than once to answer her other phone. At one point, she could be heard describing the situation to another caller, "... they didn't even see us coming. I wish we could have brought more food. We brought what we could, but I wish we could have brought more. It's OK. It's not good, but people are surviving."

How were you able to get in? The church is under intense military security.

Yes, we climbed over a barricade and through some barbed wire, and we divided into three groups. We had the element of surprise on our side. We just had bags of food and we just headed for the door and didn't turn back when the soldiers were yelling at us to stop.

Were you shot at?

They shot after we got in. I've tried to get into the church with food and medical supplies for the past month at different points, and every time I've been shot at. Or they've shot warning shots. But this time I didn't hear any and it may be that I wasn't paying any attention, that I was just trying to get in, but I don't think that's true. I think they didn't because there's a great deal of media.

All around?

Yes, there are a bunch of media already inside of Manger Square right by a tank, so it had already gotten chaotic because they were there. What I have noticed is the last time I tried to get food into the church that the soldiers were very gentle with us, by comparison, because there was so much media there. When the corporate media is there with their cameras on, we get treated OK. I think it wouldn't have done well if they'd shot a bunch of internationals in the back while trying to get into the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem with bags of food.

What's the situation inside the church right now? What did you find when you arrived?

Well, 155 Palestinians had soup for lunch today made of leaves from a tree and water, and a pinch of salt. Several people are quite sick, ill, they haven't gotten out of bed since I got here.

What is wrong with them?

There are blanket beds against the wall ... I'm not positive on the specifics of what's wrong with the people that are in here. I know that somebody who was bleeding from being shot by an Israeli sniper was able to be taken out by one of the clergy members, was able to put them into an ambulance, into a car, and be taken to the hospital. And another who was shot and killed by an Israeli sniper this morning was also taken out.

What is your plan? Are you planning to stay in the church?

Yeah, we're going to stay until the Israeli military lets the Palestinians out without killing them or arresting them.

The Israeli position is that they're willing to let everyone but the militants go free.

Well, I'm not sure who they mean are militants.

The Israelis are claiming that there are a number of Palestinian militants in the church, people guilty of terror attacks.

There are no Palestinians of that nature in here. There are some Palestinian police and also some people who worked as guards for the Church of the Nativity, but as far as who's doing the attacking, my position is absolutely that the Israelis attacked the Palestinians.

You're saying that there are no Palestinian militants in the church?

Yes, that is my position. Militants, no. There are Israeli military surrounding the church.

The people that are in the church now are all civilians, some police?

Some police, some guards.

There are certain people in the church who the Israelis say are hostages, who they will let go free. Is that your understanding? That the Israelis will let certain people, hostages, go free?

No, actually, I'm an international civilian and the Israelis shoot at me. So, I don't have the understanding that they're letting any Palestinians do anything that is free.

But as far as people in the church, as I understand it, there are certain people in the church that the Israelis say are being held hostage.

That's absolutely not true. I'm in here and clearly no one's being held hostage. As far as people that walk out, they're arrested or killed. The internationals who didn't make it in have been arrested.

How can this situation be resolved, in your view?

What we're hoping is that the international community will put pressure on the Israeli government to allow Palestinians to move freely throughout their lives, to stop occupying them, to stop requiring them to go through checkpoints in order to move from area to the next, and to allow them some freedom and dignity. And that they will move out of Bethlehem, that they will take their tanks out of here, get rid of their guns, get the Israeli soldiers out of Bethlehem and let these people live their lives. That's what we're hoping.

But didn't Israel have to take some action, in light of the numerous suicide bombings on Israeli civilians?

Palestinian civilians are killed every single day by the Israeli military. Daily in the Gaza strip, particularly in the south, tanks shell, snipers shoot at kids, Apaches fly overhead in the West Bank, Israeli tanks surround towns, and fully occupy towns. I'd say as far as the death toll is concerned, Palestinians have lost many, many of their people ... I've got another interview I've got to do now on the other phone.

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About the writer
Douglas Cruickshank is a senior writer for Salon. For more articles by Cruickshank, visit his archive.

Jon Miller · May 3, 2002, 12:57

if there are no militants then Israel can just walk inwithout getting shot at right

no?

huh

Jon Miller

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 13:02

There are police and guards.

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 13:02

http://www.mondominishows.com/minibytes/index.html

Click on, The Is-Real World.

Jon Miller · May 3, 2002, 13:07

it had it's moments

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · May 3, 2002, 13:08

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There are police and guards.

are they acting as Militants?

Jon Miller

Ecthy · May 3, 2002, 13:43

Does anyone have an idea what the system behind those sniper shootings is in this case?

laurentius · May 3, 2002, 13:53

I think it's sick, the monks should blow the hole church up as a protest to isreali actions. Lets see how many western govenrment still stands with israel after that

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 13:56

Jon, I dunno.

DinoDoc · May 3, 2002, 14:03

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
I think it's sick, the monks should blow the hole church up as a protest to isreali actions.

Support for the Palestinians would likely vanish among the religious if they followed through with your foolish actions.

finkian · May 3, 2002, 14:07

just for clarification-- what exactly is the difference between police, guards, and militants? Are not the palestinian police and guards opposed to the Israeli military?

Ecthy · May 3, 2002, 14:08

Never mind this, I promised to stay out.

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 14:09

I'm sure they are, but they aren't the ones blowing people up. They are simply trying to defend their people.

MOBIUS · May 3, 2002, 14:12

.

finkian · May 3, 2002, 14:13

But my question is (and believe me, I'm all for a palestinian nation) what is it that the israelis are considering militants, and what are they considering acts of terror? Couldn't it be that the palestinians have spent years defending themselves by committing "acts of terror"? What would stop these police and these guards from defending themselves by assaulting Israeli soldiers-- which, to me, kinda justifies being called militants.

laurentius · May 3, 2002, 14:14

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Support for the Palestinians would likely vanish among the religious if they followed through with your foolish actions.

Got a better idea? Should they just starve to death or get sniped by israeli military while trying to get food from the garden?

Jon Miller · May 3, 2002, 14:15

perhaps they should surrender (like most warriors do)

then require that they be treated like pows

Jon Miller

laurentius · May 3, 2002, 14:17

Surrendering to israelis? Why wouldnt they just shoot themselves first?

Jon Miller · May 3, 2002, 14:19

well they could

but surrending is the usual choice for soldiers in this case

Jon Miller

laurentius · May 3, 2002, 14:23

So the guards and legitimate police officers should accept being considered as terrorists? I couldnt bow into that.

finkian · May 3, 2002, 14:25

NO, not as terrorists-- but definitely as combatants. And, if someone was shooting at you, and resisting YOUR military operation, endangering YOUR life, you would definitely shoot back-- and demand that they be turned over to you, to neutralize the threat. Of course, none of this would be an issue if Israel would just stay out of other people's countries....

laurentius · May 3, 2002, 14:26

Besides israelis have made very clear that they dont negotiate with the "terrorists" inside. There goes your POW-status, more like Al-Qaeda-prisoner status

DinoDoc · May 3, 2002, 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius
Got a better idea?

My idea is that they shouldn't profane a holy site more than they already have.

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 14:31

Maybe they should all off themselves, like at Masada.

That would make the Church a Holy place for Christians and Muslims.

Natan · May 3, 2002, 15:26

I read the interviews with the kid who escaped, he said that Palestinians with guns (he identified them as "guys from our army") were holding fifty minors in the basement with very little food and refusing to let them leave. How this person would know whether these people were involved in terror attacks or not, I don't know.

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 15:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Natan
How this person would know whether these people were involved in terror attacks or not, I don't know.

That was my thought as well.

Natan · May 3, 2002, 16:07

I suppose they could have looked up their employment records to see if they were employed by the PA or the Church (although I'm not sure either set of records are publically available, and members of the PA police have been involved in terror attacks) but then it's misleading to invoke personal presence in the Church to bolster the argument.

chequita guevara · May 3, 2002, 16:08

Man, that Sharansky dude is UHGLEEEEE!

Ecthy · May 3, 2002, 16:09

his avatar icon? most certainly so...

Natan · May 3, 2002, 16:28

He's one of the great men of the twentieth century, Chegitz. Besides, I'm sure he had a beautiful face before the Gulag.