Inside the Church of the Nativity - Page 4

Eli · May 6, 2002, 07:06

It's good to see someone from Norway who managed to avoid the media brainwash.

KrazyHorse · May 6, 2002, 07:09

Especially since we've yet to see an Israeli doing so.

Eli · May 6, 2002, 07:37

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Especially since we've yet to see an Israeli doing so.

Unlike totalitarian states like Iraq, Iran, France, Syria, Norway, Saudia and Canada we have free media here, and I'm sure you'll find Israelis more radical than Mobius. A good place to look for them is here

Guardian · May 6, 2002, 07:40

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Especially since we've yet to see an Israeli doing so.

Are you sure about that?

I wish people would stop talking about "Israelis" (or "Palestinians" for that matter) as if they were a single entity with no individual differences whatsoever.

This is precisely the kind of generalization that makes wars possible in the first place.

Guardian · May 6, 2002, 07:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

Unlike totalitarian states like Iraq, Iran, France, Syria, Norway, Saudia and Canada we have free media here, and I'm sure you'll find Israelis more radical than Mobius. A good place to look for them is here

Ummm... may I ask for your definition of a "totalitarian state" ?

KrazyHorse · May 6, 2002, 07:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli
Unlike totalitarian states like Iraq, Iran, France, Syria, Norway, Saudia and Canada we have free media here

Akka · May 6, 2002, 07:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

Unlike totalitarian states like Iraq, Iran, France, Syria, Norway, Saudia and Canada we have free media here, and I'm sure you'll find Israelis more radical than Mobius. A good place to look for them is here

What's even more funny is that I'm sure he BELIEVES it

KrazyHorse · May 6, 2002, 07:54

Especially the part about Israel having a free media.

Tell me, Eli: what happens to journalistic integrity when TV stations "self-censor" to avoid "embarassing" the IDF?

Eli · May 6, 2002, 07:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Guardian
Ummm... may I ask for your definition of a "totalitarian state" ?

I just love the word. It sounds good. Totalitarian. Totalitarian.

Guardian · May 6, 2002, 08:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Eli

I just love the word. It sounds good. Totalitarian. Totalitarian.

I rest my case...
(

)

KrazyHorse · May 6, 2002, 08:03

Stop being so serious.

Panag · May 6, 2002, 08:03

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Especially the part about Israel having a free media.

Tell me, Eli: what happens to journalistic integrity when TV stations "self-censor" to avoid "embarassing" the IDF?

hi ,

well , i would love to see that , .....

only , the laws of Eretz Yisrael prevent from doing so , .....!!!

unlike some other countries , where it happens ;

"in the intrest of national security" , ..............

allas , have a nice day

KrazyHorse · May 6, 2002, 08:06

You're either mistaken or a liar. Don't make me search for the news stories from ~ a month ago on this subject.

Guardian · May 6, 2002, 08:09

Quote:

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Stop being so serious.

Who, me?

Never mind me, I'm 'totalitarian'...

laurentius · May 6, 2002, 08:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

I think that you are sick!

You poor f**k are the essense of terrorism!

You're willing to kill 200 people (who you claim are innocent) and destroy a world known religious center, just to hurt Israel.

I'm sorry I ever had any doubt that you're a f**king terrorist.

And I said they should be inside? They could hide into one of those monasteries for time being. Anyway the stand off seems to be almost over now and only "few" pals died during the siege. It's better than nothing, right? It's not me who is the terrorist here. Frankly, it's you and IDF

laurentius · May 6, 2002, 08:57

Quote:

Sunday, May 5, 2002
Israeli Army assault on foreign activists (Part 1)
Posted by Andrea Becker

(Ramallah, Palestine, 5 May 2002)-- The following is an email written by Huwaida Arraf, one of the founders of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) and regular contributor to Live from Palestine. Updates to follow. [AB]

Friends,

We succeeded to get foodstuffs and “international protection” into the Church of the Nativity! If you haven’t yet seen the reports, please see below.

The 13 of us that were detained after the action have just been released for a few hours, I think. We were 8 guys and 5 ladies. After over 7 hours of being detained and questioned by the Israeli military, we were finally hand-cuffed and escorted out of Bethlehem. At the Bethlehem checkpoint, the guys and girls were divided. The five ladies were pushed into the floor of a police jeep and our legs were bound. The Israeli police officers drove around for a while then stopped and pulled one girl out - Ida Fasten, from Sweden, cut her loose and left her, in the middle of we don’t know where, by herself. We were horrified! They had taken all of our phones and identification, and it was 2am. When I protested leaving a foreign woman out in the middle of unfamiliar territory in the middle of the night, with no phone and no ID, I was physically assaulted -- slapped hard in the face by one of the officers. Both officers in the jeep refused to give us their names and badge numbers, despite repeated requests.

When we realized that the officers were going to leave each one of us in a different place, the four of us left in the jeep agreed on a meeting place. Four of us are now safe in a hotel in Jerusalem, but we still don’t know where Ida is. We don’t know what happened to the guys. Again, none of us have our phones. We were told to report to a certain location, 24 Hillel, at 9am - in 4 hours. I pray Ida is there and that the guys are also safe.

We don’t know whether we face arrest or deportation; what we do know is that the presence of the international civilians now inside the Church of the Nativity is probably a lifesaver. We brought in food and are offering international presence as protection for the civilians inside the church from the indiscriminate shooting of the Israeli Army. We are international civilians upholding international law. Please contact your governments and ask them to do the same.

In solidarity & struggle,

Huwaida

ISM

"The worlds most disciplined army" Just like SA back in the good ol days?

Imran Siddiqui · May 6, 2002, 19:05

Quote:

I'd consider 18 months of senseless violence directed at Israeli civilians to be the equivalent of "spitting in Israel's face", especially in light of the very reasonable settlement offered by the Israelis. The Pals are the ones who chose a return to violence, not the Israelis.

When you elect a war criminal as Prime Minister, you chose violence just as much as anyone else.

Quote:

The second intifada started few days before Sharon's visit.

If you keep saying it, maybe you'll believe it to be true

.

Panag · May 6, 2002, 19:10

[QUOTE] The Pals are the ones who chose a return to violence, not the Israelis.[/q]

true

When you elect a war criminal as Prime Minister, you chose violence just as much as anyone else.

proven ; not quilty , .......

have a nice day

Natan · May 6, 2002, 19:10

Having a free media means self-censorship; i.e., the right of the media to decide what they will report. Otherwise there ain't no such animal as a free press.

Drake Tungsten · May 7, 2002, 02:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

When you elect a war criminal as Prime Minister, you chose violence just as much as anyone else.

Palestine started this new wave of violence. You can claim Sharon is a war criminal all you want, but it doesn't change this basic fact. The Pals wanted a war and they got it; makes me have little sympathy for their current situation. If you don't want the IDF rolling through your town, don't send suicide bombers into Israel. It's a pretty simple calculation.

Imran Siddiqui · May 7, 2002, 02:50

Quote:

The Pals wanted a war and they got it

Sharon wanted a war and he got it. Smart political play, doesn't make him any less evil though.

Panag · May 8, 2002, 14:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[q]

When you elect a war criminal as Prime Minister, you chose violence just as much as anyone else.

ahem , did we forget the planes that yasser blew up , ....the killings in Tunis , by the PLO , .....???
oh yeah , Sharon had his day in court , several times ; "not quilty" , ...

i wonder if yasser would be in court , ......he never been there , ....

Quote:

The second intifada started few days before Sharon's visit.

If you keep saying it, maybe you'll believe it to be true

.

the second intifada was started when Europe gave money to PA , they thought that they could take over the world , ........

have a nice day

laurentius · May 8, 2002, 14:06

And that makes you horny?

The Mad Monk · May 9, 2002, 00:13

Quote:

Originally posted by laurentius

"The worlds most disciplined army" Just like SA back in the good ol days?

Just checked the website for the International Solidarity Movement -- not exactly non-partisan, are they?

chequita guevara · May 9, 2002, 00:15

Why is this thread still active?

Go away, I'm bored with you now.

The Mad Monk · May 9, 2002, 00:28

I just heard on the radio that they have moved everyone out of the church...except for the thirteen most wanted.

DinoDoc · May 9, 2002, 00:31

That's because the EU doesn't want to deal with them.

The Mad Monk · May 9, 2002, 00:47

Yeah, I like the way that went down:

Israel: So we are agreed. The thirtenn militants to be sent to Italy under student visas, where they will stay at an Institution of higher education there under the eye of a professor, for a period of three years or so...

PA: Agreed.

Italy: (long, long pause)...WHAT!?

Ecthy · May 9, 2002, 06:56

So do those fellows keep their weapons or not? I'm afraid Israeli forces will storm the church and kill them.

Has there been any evidence of those 13 guys being terrorists then?

Panag · May 9, 2002, 07:59

hi ,

sending them abroad is a mistake , look at yasser , we should put them on trial , afterall , they killed our people , so we should put them behind bars , ......

and if some people really "love" them , call them , ......

and we shall talk again in 30 days , ......

have a nice day