I smell a conspiracy

[Compugasm 2]

I found this game unplayable. I bought the special version the day it was placed on the store shelf. Normally, i don't buy any game without hearing what people say about it. I bought this game purley on the strength of the Civ name. My mistake.

I came back to this forum to hear what new developments there are, and from what i gather, not only is it still a bad game but patches have created whole new problems.

Its been 9 months since the game was released and the same griping is going on. Will I ever get to enjoy the $60 i paid for CivIII. Probably not. Personally, i still play Alpha Centauri every couple of months. A game not without flaws, but much better than CivIII.

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by DarthVeda
Civ3 is inferior to Call to Power 2, it just got better publicity.

This is just a matter of opinion, and as known there are as much opinions as there are people. IMHO CtP & CtP 2 suck..

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Compugasm 2
Its been 9 months since the game was released and the same griping is going on. Will I ever get to enjoy the $60 i paid for CivIII. Probably not.

Now you can enjoy it as the 1.21 patch is out
True, we could not enjoy the game with 1.17 patch, but with all other patchs, yes, the game has been great.

Personally, i still play Alpha Centauri every couple of months. A game not without flaws, but much better than CivIII.

Again, a matter of opinion, IMHO Alpha Centauri sucks too... even worse than CtP series. There has not been a single playable game in Civ line since Civ2 before Civ3 came.

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by TheHobbit
I like Civ3, thats why I'll still play it. I won't buy the expansion though. I'd never forgive myself if I did.

C'mon you cant be serious, it wont propably be more than $20 - 30, just leave few pizzas & cola bottles to store shelf and you'll make a Civ3 Expansion purchase

They could have at least released the scenario editor(completed) if nothing else for the original Civ3 thats a main thing not a "special feature"...at least it should't be.

True, but atleast i am happy that they released Civ3 when they did, if it takes so long to complete the sc. editor, we'd propably still be waiting for Civ3 if it would have been necessary to release the sc. editor with it originally.

[Compugasm 2]

This should be framed and placed on every desk in the firaxian office. It objectively expains why SMAC is better than Civ. Its rather lengthy, so i will condense and post a link to the AC forum it was posted ...

"...getting rid of 3D terrain was a HUGE step backwards, as far as I am concerned. For one thing, the rolling terrain of SMAC is far more "believable" and strategic than the billiards table of Civ. Notice I say "believable" - I'm not talking of realism here. I'm speaking, specifically, of the ILLUSION of being there. When the ground shakes and mountains are created, I feel the environment as a PRESENCE. When I drown my opponent's farms and mines under 500 meters of tidal floods, I cry victory. When I raise a hill into a mountain and trap rainfall there, doubling my farm output, then drill to acquifer to see my energy rating skyrocket, I feel like I made a real difference. Which, of course, is EXACTLY the point of an EXPLORE, DISCOVER and BUILD game.

WHERE IS THE WORKSHOP? I am still shaking my head over that one. I used to spend HOURS designing new units in SMAC. That's the "BUILD" part of the game, no? If there is to be a Civ4, there better be a Unit Builder. 'Nuff said

SirVincealot ..."

[Compugasm 2]

Originally posted by Conqueror

if it takes so long to complete the sc. editor, we'd propably still be waiting for Civ3.

GOOD! This is a game, not an investment. I shouldn't be waiting 9 months hoping it matures. I should be playing the damn thing, not being sold a senario editor that can't create senarios. Thats like buying a car with missing windows. Sure you can drive it, but your swallowing lots of bugs.

[LaRusso]

Originally posted by Compugasm 2
This should be framed and placed on every desk in the firaxian office. It objectively expains why SMAC is better than Civ. Its rather lengthy, so i will condense and post a link to the AC forum it was posted ...

"...getting rid of 3D terrain was a HUGE step backwards, as far as I am concerned. For one thing, the rolling terrain of SMAC is far more "believable" and strategic than the billiards table of Civ. Notice I say "believable" - I'm not talking of realism here. I'm speaking, specifically, of the ILLUSION of being there. When the ground shakes and mountains are created, I feel the environment as a PRESENCE. When I drown my opponent's farms and mines under 500 meters of tidal floods, I cry victory. When I raise a hill into a mountain and trap rainfall there, doubling my farm output, then drill to acquifer to see my energy rating skyrocket, I feel like I made a real difference. Which, of course, is EXACTLY the point of an EXPLORE, DISCOVER and BUILD game.

WHERE IS THE WORKSHOP? I am still shaking my head over that one. I used to spend HOURS designing new units in SMAC. That's the "BUILD" part of the game, no? If there is to be a Civ4, there better be a Unit Builder. 'Nuff said

SirVincealot ..."

yeah, let's build an air superiority warrior to shoot down those flying triremes

[louiethelesbo]

I think Sid Meier and Hillary Clinton are targets of a great right wing conspiracy. The National Enquirer has confirmed that Hillary Clinton and Sid have been doing the nasty for the last two years. Sid's response was..."She is not really bad"...tastes like tuna...packed in heavy oil.

[Fitz]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
My position is just as valid and usful as that of a person who says, hey, I like the game and think its fine.

If there were no negative feedback on products then how who people have a clue?

jt, good to see you're still willing to express a reasonable argument. I was worried about you for a while there. Next time start with this and maybe the anti-whine reflex won't cut in.

To all the anti-whiners:

I actually think that the rage at having to pay for that which was promised, and the disappointment in what has to date been a fantastic series, is totally understandable. I love this game, and find what time I can in my busy schedule to play it. But every time someone vents (possibly excepting Coracle or Uber), I feel a pang of sympathy. The game is good and fun to play, but simultaneously a spectacular flop. And charging for a multiplayer expansion, while totally understandable if you are willing to believe that Infogames has made that decision, is a backstab the likes of which I have not recently seen.

I think that the Civ community fallout of this debacle is going to have a huge impact of all future products that come out of Civ (SMAC2 is off my wishlist). If not, I am fairly sure it will be because all of the original Civfans will drop out of the Civ community, to be replaced by newcomers that don't know the excellence that came before CivIII. Maybe a changing of the guard is occasionally in order, but it is still a sad event when it occurs.

That said, I still plan to boot up my PC as soon as I get home from work today, and play CivIII until my brain drips out of my ears.

[Cookie Monster]

I couldn't agree with you more Fitz!

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Compugasm 2
This should be framed and placed on every desk in the firaxian office. It objectively expains why SMAC is better than Civ. Its rather lengthy, so i will condense and post a link to the AC forum it was posted ...

This doesn't "objectively" explain anything. It's just some guy's opinions of why SMAC is better than Civ3. Its like me saying that SMAX is boring, has bad graphics and a weak AI while denouncing the game. Is that objective? No, its pure opinion. Which is what that post is. Don't claim that its "objective"

[Compugasm 2]

Ha, yeah your right, it wasn't objective. It was 3am and i was getting a little tired.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Compugasm 2
Ha, yeah your right, it wasn't objective. It was 3am and i was getting a little tired.

no big deal. And, it was a pretty interesting message. I agree with some parts and disagree with other parts.

didn't mean to jump your case there.

[shamu99]

going back to the earlier posts of the conspiracy...

i believe there was no marketing pre-plan on really what to include in the original game, patch, or expansion pack. most companies work in a chaotic environment and get things right by pure luck. however, i still think it's not right for the developer to hold back on information.

granted, they have to 'sanitize' and 'delay' all information because of the distributor and advertising aggreements with game sites/magazines...we, the consumers still feel duped. we are almost holding our breaths each day for the past three years for any scraps of information on this game. if we had timely information, we wouldn't feel cheated for lack of this or that, and we wouldn't have such high expectations.

perhaps civ3.com could provide excerpts of their minutes from development meetings? (that's reaching.)

anyway, what do i know...i still miss the wonder movies.

[Fitz]

Maybe we should try and get minutes of Infogames board meetings. Are those kind of thing generally public info?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Fitz
Maybe we should try and get minutes of Infogames board meetings. Are those kind of thing generally public info?

that's hilarious. I'm not sure if you could get them. Not sure if they would discuss something like this at a board meeting, anyway.


Wouldn't the minutes be in French?

[Coracle]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
I am not angry nor do I throw darts. I was on these forums before Civ3 and I will be here long after Civ3 is forgotten. . .

That should be in January of 2003.