Tipping - Page 3

Alexander's Horse · May 5, 2002, 01:59

All this shows is what a nightmare tipping is - there must be a dozen different rules in the posts above.

And its different in different countries.

One interesting one is paying by credit card. I usually leave the tip in cash because I want to make sure the bar staff actually get it.

In France service is included in most bills (if it says "service est compris") but I still leave something in cash for the same reason above.

Rogan Josh · May 5, 2002, 05:33

I actually tip quite well, mainly because of the desire to be nice and be well thought of. But to be honest, it is a really stupid way to do it.

If the service charge were included in the bill, then the waiter or waitress would be guaranteed to get a reasonable wage on which they could live. If the service were exceptionally good then they could get a tip on top, but that should be rare - certainly not the norm. This is what is done in France.

The only possible benefit of tipping is that it encourages the waiter to serve better, in order to get a better tip, but quite frankly this doesn't work. In the US you have to tip - it is really not optional if you don't want to have an ugly scene. And any delay is usually the kitchen's fault as much as the waiter's anyway. Finally, the waiter should do their best at their job and be paid for it like everyone else, and be fired if they are crap.

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Oh and to all those "just pay them a better wage" folks, Wait persons make far more money on the tip system than they would on the wage scale, if just because they can avoid paying as much taxes.

This is just plain stupid. So you think that waiters shouldn't pay tax? Who should pay their tax instead then? You maybe?

Chowlett · May 5, 2002, 09:38

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT

Actually, the taxes are labelled on the gas pumps here in Tennessee: 39.6 cents a gallon - almost 1/3rd of the total cost per gallon!

I don't understand why your companies don't put out that information for public consumption: it makes them look less greedy while providing a public information service. It's a win-win situation all around!

Don't complain - I can't find recent figures in a cursory search through Google, but the 2000 figures are reportred on the BBC website. On an 84.9p litre of fuel, we paid roughly 17.2p to the refinery, 4.2p to the retailer, 12.64p on VAT and 50.89p on fuel duty.

Yes, I said 50.89p. Combining the taxes, we paid 63.53p out of 84.9 on tax - that's very nearly three quarters.

Boris Godunov · May 5, 2002, 10:59

Quote:

[SIZE=1]

This is just plain stupid. So you think that waiters shouldn't pay tax? Who should pay their tax instead then? You maybe?

What are you talking about? All I'm saying is that they pay less in taxes getting tips than they would earning wages, which is better for them. Isn't this board all about what's best for the waitpersons?

Oh, and I totally disagree with including the tip. I don't give a bad tip for slow delivery of the food to my table or even if the food doesn't taste too good--yeah, that's the kitchen's fault. When I have given bad tips it has been for an exceptionally rotten waiter who was rude, uninterested in making sure my table was satisfied and incompetent. I am a pretty forgiving person, but if I'm out spending a lot of money on a meal, the waiter better not be making it a miserable experience. And if he does, I am sure as hell going to show him just what I thought of his job performance by putting that nickel tip down. That way maybe he'll be nicer to the next customer.

I don't want to have to go to a manager to express unhappiness except in extreme cases, as I'm not looking to get anyone fired.

Boris Godunov · May 5, 2002, 11:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Chowlett

Don't complain - I can't find recent figures in a cursory search through Google, but the 2000 figures are reportred on the BBC website. On an 84.9p litre of fuel, we paid roughly 17.2p to the refinery, 4.2p to the retailer, 12.64p on VAT and 50.89p on fuel duty.

Yes, I said 50.89p. Combining the taxes, we paid 63.53p out of 84.9 on tax - that's very nearly three quarters.

And that's how it should be. I advocate raising gasoline taxes in the U.S. by $2-3 a gallon. Yeah, you heard me!

Ecthy · May 5, 2002, 11:05

All this talk about tipping (and lepers leaving the tip in the prostitute

) reminds me of the introductory scene of Reservoir Dogs (or ICQ convos with PH for that matter)

JohnT · May 5, 2002, 11:33

Boris, you're a fool.

Boris Godunov · May 5, 2002, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnT
Boris, you're a fool.

Nice post, very articulate and well-though out.

DinoDoc · May 5, 2002, 13:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I advocate raising gasoline taxes in the U.S. by $2-3 a gallon. Yeah, you heard me!

What purpose would that serve other than to institute a heavy tax on those living in "rural" areas?

Boris Godunov · May 5, 2002, 13:18

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc

What purpose would that serve other than to institute a heavy tax on those living in "rural" areas?

Thanks for asking politely!

I think we need to move beyond short-sighted notions and look at the big picture:

FACT: Oil is a limited resource. We consume oil at a rate many many many times greater than it is created.
FACT: The current amount of oil needed to keep the USA going is many times beyond our capacity to produce, so we rely on foreign imports. Of the foreign oil sources, a very few, mostly Middle Eastern countries control 90%, giving them excessive political power.
FACT: Using oil pollutes the atmosphere and environment a great deal
FACT: The dependence on oil gives oil companies excessive political clout in the USA.

So, why the tax?

Well, I see oil as a grotesque national addiction, very much like cigarettes. A destructive practice with little redeeming societal values that ultimately hurts more people than it helps. How have we dealt with smoking? We've slapped on large taxes to make the cost of smoking higher. There is a direct corralation between the increasing cost of smoking (combined with increasing social stigma) and the decline of smoking rates in the population at large.

I see a similar solution for our oil problem. There are viable alternatives to oil that are cleaner and cheaper. Oil companies don't like them so use their power to suppress them and eat up patents. One guy made a car that ran on vegetable oil and ran cleanly with more than adequate performance.

So, we slap on those taxes. People will drive less, carpool more to save money. No more hoping in the car to drive to the corner grocery store that takes 10 minutes to walk to. Less cars on the roads mean less government dollars needed for maintenance of wear and tear. Less cars mean less pollution, less-crowded freeways and city streets. Healthier, happier people.

Oh, and then without oil, we can tell the oil companies and, particularly, such regimes as Saudi Arabia and Iraq to go f*ck themselves, because we don't need their stinking oil any longer.

And the best part is, the sooner we begin the inevitable transition to alternative energy sources, the better off we'll be. It will be painful, but we must set aside worries about short-term pain for longterm benefits. There's simply too much at stake to maintain such petty, selfish attitudes.

Oil's clock is winding doooooown...and we're better off for it.

DinoDoc · May 5, 2002, 13:27

Boris, the fact remains that despite your noble motives unless and until the US has a national transportation system comparable/better than the one in the UK, your proposed stratospheric on gasoline will disproportionately affect the people that live in rural areas that it will the people that live in New York, New York.

Paul Hanson · May 5, 2002, 14:21

I'm sorry? Did you just imply that the UK's public transport system is better than the US's?

No offence intended, but either we have it better than we think or you have it worse then we think.

KrazyHorse · May 5, 2002, 14:23

Quote:

Of the foreign oil sources, a very few, mostly Middle Eastern countries control 90%

Who's your biggest petrosupplier, Boris?

Timexwatch · May 5, 2002, 14:49

Krazyhorse:

Here's a breakdown of global producers:

Funny, the majority isn't supplied by OPEC

And to answer Krazyhorse's question, as of 2000, it was Canada

For all those who want to take a look

As for tipping, don't be cheap. If the service is passable and the wait staff relatively congenial, tip 10%. If the waiter is good, tip 15%. If the food is good/brought out fast and the service is excellent, tip 20%. As a student who waits and busses on occasion, I can attest to the fact that I earn more waiting or bussing than with a regular wage job. Why? I'm decent, which guarantees good tips and I always underreport my tips to the tax man. I make sure that I can never get caught by using it as my "play money"

KrazyHorse · May 5, 2002, 17:23

It was a rhetorical question. I knew the answer.

Ecthy · May 5, 2002, 18:15

I don't tip. I don't believe in it.

Ramo · May 5, 2002, 18:32

Depends on the place.

A nice restaurant, 15-20%. A pseudo-fast food place (subs, deli sandwiches and th elike), 5-10%. Otherwise, nothing.

Ecthy · May 5, 2002, 18:40

I don't see how people can tip more than 10%. You guys must be rich. Or they don't take a lot for food and drinks in your country.

orange · May 5, 2002, 18:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I don't see how people can tip more than 10%. You guys must be rich. Or they don't take a lot for food and drinks in your country.

Total comes to $25...

10% = 2.50
15% = 3.75

yeah, we must be ****ing out of our gourds

Ramo · May 5, 2002, 18:51

Quote:

I don't see how people can tip more than 10%.

Waiters/waitresses are underpaid in this country, so it's customary to tip well.

Ecthy · May 5, 2002, 18:53

Well orange, you said you go up to 30% and even more, that makes for a fair difference...

I figure you guys must be rich as hell. And since you gain yoru riches on the expense of waitresses, you tip.

orange · May 5, 2002, 18:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Well orange, you said you go up to 30% and even more, that makes for a fair difference...

30% for DELIVERY and then i'm only paying $5 for the food anyway (assuming I'm ordering in myself)

Quote:

I figure you guys must be rich as hell. And since you gain yoru riches on the expense of waitresses, you tip.

Ecthy · May 5, 2002, 18:57

Are you getting all mad at me now, pal?

Let me check that 'delivery' thing first...

Ecthy · May 5, 2002, 18:58

Still don't see the difference

Immortal Wombat · May 5, 2002, 19:01

I get tipped a quid occasionally when helping old ladies carry compost to their automobiles. (as in thrice in 9 months...)

The rich old bloke who's gardening I do for an hour and a half a week gave me £15 after the first couple of months, at which I was utterly staggered. I nearly refused it point blank, but he insisted and he's rich.

orange · May 5, 2002, 19:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Are you getting all mad at me now, pal?

Of course not, lest I be labeled an anti German

10% and 30% aren't a big deal when we're talking about the difference between 50 cents and a buck 50. That's all...

Felch · May 5, 2002, 21:09

I worked for this guy who ran a ice cream shop that made no business, and in the winters he had Christmas trees for sale. They didn't sell too wll either, like one or two a day. One day he came by at the end of my shift, and asked if I got any tips. I told him we didn't even have any business, and he gave me fifty dollars cash to compensate for no tips.

Nice boss, and I've always wondered what side business he was running. I guess he was using the shop to launder money.