design versus coding

[TCO]

No. You've payed little attention to me, so if it succeeds, it won't be from me. It would be from learning your lesson the hard way. Sure, if you quit I'll have been right. But this was not just about succeeding or failing. The odds were always against you. The issue with you is that even given that, you want to do fight with hands tied behind the back. That's lunacy and silliness.

And on the self-publishing. THat's a fools errand and is costing you dearly. And it's not because you want more of the take that you do it, but because it's very competetive to get published and you can't do it so far. You need to be honest with yourself, Vel.

[Dale]

Vel, Solver, Hex:

Stop feeding the troll! I've told you before.

[Velociryx]

I know Dale...I know....it's just....so....hard....to.....resist!

Now, as to the "costing us dearly" part...so far, that has not been my experience.

It (our publishing model) is what's making it possible to pay a coder.

I'd have to call that a success, and based on that success, we'll continue on with the current model, thanks.



-=Vel=-

[TCO]

why don't you code it yourself? Oh...you're a fluffy idea guy.

[TCO]

Oh...and if you are going to make claims that your publishing is moneymaking, I'm going to demand proof. And if you think that is nosy, tough. because you brought it up.

[TCO]

It's a common refrain of those UNABLE to get published by legit houses because their books are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to pass a reader test, that they prefer to vanity publish (self publish). And there are a gazillion articles on the web about how vanity presses extract money from such silly people.

http://www.sff.net/people/yog/


"Got that, everyone? Mortgaged his house in an economically depressed area, to pay a vanity press run by blatant scammers. Talk about believing in your work. Talk about betting the farm. "

[TCO]

Here is 5 DAYS IN MAY on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Five-Days-May-...4189555&sr=1-1

Note that it has ONE review. And that from a personal associate of Chris's. The sales ranking is 2 and a half millionth! I wonder how many copies that is? I wonder how many full time employees can exist on that revenue stream.

[Velociryx]

Recommend reading it before making a value judgement.

As to sales rankings...I don't much care what it is...as long as it keeps enabling us to pay the coder.

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

http://www.sff.net/people/brian_plante/chronicles.htm

[TCO]

How can you say you don't care the sales rank but only that it pays the coder? The two concepts go together, Chris. If you are making peanuts from the books, then you only have peanuts for funding development. And you should stop putting on airs about "hiring" a coder. What have you made? couple hunderd bucks? What have you pad? couple hunderd bucks? stop trying to put on airs. REal writers like Steinbeck cut to the truth. Not bulshit.

I wonder how many hours of coder time you can pay for. what's the going rate for an hour of coder time and how many hours required to complete a game? especially one of the scope that you put forward.

[Velociryx]

Actually, you brought it up, but nice try. And the answer is the same now as it has been all the other times you've asked the question.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Incorrect, TCO.

What I care about is creative control.

Demonstrating that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and doing something I really enjoy doing.

There are artists out there (believe it or not!), whose main aim is NOT money.

I know...it's a tough concept to wrap your noggin around, but that don't make it any less true.

We have a way of doing things here that's not your way...hell, it's not even the norm.

That doesn't mean it's not working, and that must really gall you.

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

Then don't put on airs about paying employees, Chris. Real writing is about stripping away lies and getting to truth. Not fluffiness. Think Jack London.

[Velociryx]

Who's putting on airs? LOL...I've been accused of a lot of stuff over the course of my life, but that's never been one of them.

You sir, have achieved a genuine first!

And on that note, I'm going outside to enjoy some of this lovely day.

Get some air, TCO...it'll do you good.

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

Sales rank is a bit of a mystery, but you can google it and find some interesting stuff. One site had a chart that said that one millionth rank meant selling 0.1 copies per week. That means single digits per year of books sold (on Amazon). I mean, cripes! That's not a business model. That's smoke and mirrors.

http://www.fonerbooks.com/surfing.htm

[TCO]

http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007...ll-meaningful/

"Strangely enough, I thought I was #1.7 million something. Guess my mom has been placing orders. :-)"

[TCO]

You volunteered that the book tie-ins had allowed paying a coder. I did not say that. Geezuz, Vel. What the hell are you doing? What do the people around you think of this? You have a brain. (although less of one than you think.) Use it for useful things. Build something tangible. This is fairy dust.

[Velociryx]

And IF Amazon was the only place the books were sold, I'd be worried.

Good thing that's not the case, eh?

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

If, if, if. You never bring any facts. Just "what might be occuring". You're full of it. Go get air and sweet tea in the emerald forest.

[TCO]

Chris: this analysis implies it may have been several months since you sold a SINGLE COPY of Five Days on Amazon.

"With no more known sales in the interim, it will stand around 2,000,000 today, eight months later."

http://longtail.typepad.com/the_long...odology_f.html

[Solver]

You're great TCO... I really am having fun reading this. It's funny that you do not consisder a bunch of novels, a developed universe and an actual game that is in constant development something tangible.

[Nikolai]

IIRC(and I very well might not), this project was ongoing already around the time I registered, in 2000?

[Solver]

Nah. Began in 2002.

[Nikolai]

Okay. Still, that is soon 6 years since. I remember reading much of it when it was announced, but later I've heard nothing. The only reason I understood it still was active, was the thread by TCO in the OT. So, what's the status then?

[Dale]

Guys, if you ignore it, it will cease to exist.

[Solver]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Okay. Still, that is soon 6 years since. I remember reading much of it when it was announced, but later I've heard nothing. The only reason I understood it still was active, was the thread by TCO in the OT. So, what's the status then?

Granted, the project hasn't been very... loud about itself for most of its existence. I've followed it very closely since the beginning, though - I can say that, for almost the entirety of this period, some development has been happening. Now is no exception.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Solver


Granted, the project hasn't been very... loud about itself for most of its existence. I've followed it very closely since the beginning, though - I can say that, for almost the entirety of this period, some development has been happening. Now is no exception.

Why don't you give us a thoughtful evaluation of the progress then. feel free to use numbers, to draw comparisons, etc.

[Solver]

While I am not Vel... realize two things. There is no deadline here for anyone to report progress against that. And there is no paying customer base that is entitled to any kind of reports. I agree, though, that there could be more regular or semi-regular news reports in the public.

At any rate, this is much preferable to what many other projects do - advertise themselves a lot, make a real ruckus and then die off without producing any (publicly released) result. It's better to be loud in advertising when you have a result to show publicly, not internally.

[TCO]

If you "followed it very closely", why are you incapable of a well-written evaluation? Are you stupid? Or just unwilling?

[TCO]

Nikolai, they are bullshitters.