Buy or research?

[Txurce]

Xarathas, my approach is similar to yours, except I skip the GL. Usually I either acquire it in the early wars, or just get by extorting techs from whomever I beat in the ancient wars. But the trade-off of slightly less savings to research the GL, and thus assure yourself of those techs, is hard to argue against.

I played a Monarch game once as the Aztecs, started on an island - thereby blowing my UU - and still managed to win the space race. But I don't think I'd want to try it on Emperor.

[jshelr]

I've been going full blast for warrrior code to get bowmen, iron working, and through to horseback riding. Then shutting down and building a military to beat some tech out of neighbors. This becomes very repetitive. However, Xarathas method above has a chance to work well and is worth a try.

[Xarathas]

Just keep in mind that, you want to have your army of horseys built before you actually turn chivalry..

[Panag]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
I've found research is better. The only real reason is that the AI will often not sell me a tech for any less than my firstborn. My neighbor gets it for a song, they demand 10g/turn from me. So I just pump up research. If the AI trades me into the back of the pack, I'll steal some tech from a weenie civ that is no threat militarily.

hi ,

hmmm , okay , but watch out with that , .......on the highest levels the comp shall then try to get a pact with a civ that is close to you , ........and there shall be a pact , ....maybe just a boycot , maybe war , .... , and , ahem , never underestimate the enemy , .......maybe the nuke you , just for the fun a couple of turns later , just like that , ........say cheese , its a surprise, .......

have a nice day

[Nym]

I am clearly a research addict. You can :

• earn lots of money (during my last game I was able to sell techs to Persia for more than 150 gold per turn),
• control the discovery of important techs, like military techs or wonder techs, and be the first to get the benefit of it (new military unit, advance in wonder or space ship component building).

[jshelr]

In response to the question: neither buy or research. The best way to win on higher levels is to get tech in early wars and hoard gold (after researching horseback riding and iron working.)

Beware of a problem, however. Feeling frisky on the basis of a one-game winning streak, I moved to the huge earth map for the next game. I started in India, I think, bounded by a huge jungle on one side, mountains on the north with desert beyond, desert on the east. There was no one close by to fight! I got big, but remained stupid. The Aztecs showed up and their little scooters were dispatched easily, by swordsmen/horsemen. So what. It took about 15 turns to get to their outpost in the desert and destroying it did not faze them in the least. No techs from Montezuma, and too far from home to effectively fight.

The warmonger strategy works best when you are in a densely packed neighborhood. Learn to love those city boarders seen on turn 10. Early AI Civs are your only effective path to enlightenment. As most of you already know, choose lots of Civs and small spaces for this strategy.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Nym
I am clearly a research addict. You can :

• earn lots of money (during my last game I was able to sell techs to Persia for more than 150 gold per turn),
• control the discovery of important techs, like military techs or wonder techs, and be the first to get the benefit of it (new military unit, advance in wonder or space ship component building).

hi ,

of course you can sell , but what the AI tends to do , is , buy it from you , and then sell it to everyone he has contact with , so 14 times 100 is 1400 a turn for the persians in this case , ....
now try to do that as human player , or you will have to sell it to everyone , but , when you sell to one , at the same time before you can sell to number 2 , all the others have just bougt it , ....

have a nice day

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by panag
of course you can sell , but what the AI tends to do , is , buy it from you , and then sell it to everyone he has contact with , so 14 times 100 is 1400 a turn for the persians in this case , ....
now try to do that as human player , or you will have to sell it to everyone , but , when you sell to one , at the same time before you can sell to number 2 , all the others have just bougt it , ....

Except that the AI will sell it to another AI for 1 gold and a world map. The 100g/turn is for you...

[Kc7mxo]

Except that the AI will sell it to another AI for 1 gold and a world map. The 100g/turn is for you...

and they tell us there's no is_human() function in the AI coding. riiiight. . .

[Fayadi]

For me I would turn to science slider to about 10-20 %(not to the extreme where the Civ didnt research at all) in early game and i shoot up to republic.When my tech level is the same with the rest and has at least 500-600 golds (minimum gold is required more if u contact with more AI) I changed the science slider to 100 % without fearing having such thing like minus gold per turn because you have too much gold.This will give you a huge lead ahead (because the science slider of the AI will not be put into 100% at this time)with plenty of gold backup.In between when other AI has researched different technology you can always buy from them because your gold is plenty.This tactics is safe and wont give you problems like a no-way of return crisis(like people experienced when shooting up to the great library but ended up AI getting it first).Having forget to change the science slider to 100 % at the required time wont kill you ,you can always buy from others.By the time your gov changed to republic which is by then you have large infrastructure it is time for lightning research!By then ,you will still have plenty of gold(because science slider 100% will probably not eat up your money so much and so fast) ,you will have other great advantage because republic requires gold for rushing .One other things to remember if you has research successfully a tech or found a tech at goody hut SELL IT immediately.Dont be selfish sell it,these money is required to buy tech from another AI (they are going to trade sooner or later anyway).For people who using this strategy ,money is essential
I would have to say this overall tactic is great and safe

I find people who shoots up to literature to build great library is a lame strategy. Building wonder too fast is costly for your empire and by the time your capital has produced the third settler and had build a temple(never build a temple is crazy because in between you will have probs keeping your citizens content to produce anything).Building a great libary will be useless because it will be obsolote .Building Pyramid is much much better.Another tips dont chop down the forest near your capital unless you are building wonder

[Ijuin]

My personal strategy is to build the Great Library as early as possible, then drop science funding to zero and devote my funds to building infrastructure (marketplaces and libraries everywhere especially). When the Great Library expires, I immediately rush Universities in all my core cities, and kick research into high gear, raising the science budget as high as I can without running a deficit. Provided that I remain in contact with at least four AI civs, the Great Library should allow me to keep up until it expires.

To boost my science power, I create a "science city", putting the Colossus, Copernicus'�@Observatory, and Newton's University in it if I can. With the city at population 12 (the highest it gets before Medicine makes Hospitals available), the city will produce about 160P science, where P is the science funding rate (example: funding rate 50% yields the following: {40 units base commerce +50% [library] +50% [Univsersity] +100% [Copernicus] +100% [Newton]} x 50% science rate = 80 science). Once I get Hospitals, it produces even more!

It does bother me a bit, however, that the SETI Program and the Research Lab come so close to the end of the tech tree that they are nearly useless. What I have done to counteract this is to move Research Labs backwards from Computers to Electronics, and SETI from Computers to Radio. This puts them at the end of the Industrial Age instead of the beginning of the Modern Age.

[Solver]

As for late game research, never sell any techs if there's another nation competing for Space. I once had France offer me 2000 lump sum and 300 per turn for The Laser tech, and I refused... didn't want them to launch the Ship first.

[Nym]

Originally posted by Solver
As for late game research, never sell any techs if there's another nation competing for Space. I once had France offer me 2000 lump sum and 300 per turn for The Laser tech, and I refused... didn't want them to launch the Ship first.

I did it in my last game to get Satellites and finally succeed in space race. But in fact I would not sell a space related tech or exchange it against a non related one.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq

Except that the AI will sell it to another AI for 1 gold and a world map. The 100g/turn is for you...

hi ,

njet , when doing some espionage they certainly have a lot of gold , ...

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo


and they tell us there's no is_human() function in the AI coding. riiiight. . .

hi ,

, well , we should ask them on the next chat , .....

have a nice day

[Nym]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

of course you can sell , but what the AI tends to do , is , buy it from you , and then sell it to everyone he has contact with , so 14 times 100 is 1400 a turn for the persians in this case , ....
now try to do that as human player , or you will have to sell it to everyone , but , when you sell to one , at the same time before you can sell to number 2 , all the others have just bougt it , ....

have a nice day

I never let it do that, oh no!
When I sell or exchange a tech, I always do it during my turn and sell/exchange it with all civs (except the ones who offer too little gold.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Nym


I never let it do that, oh no!
When I sell or exchange a tech, I always do it during my turn and sell/exchange it with all civs (except the ones who offer too little gold.

hi ,

sound fair , BUT , if the AI sells it in the same turn to the other civ's , what can one do , ..............

have a nice day

[Shaka II]

I believe that V1.17 (and V1.21) modified the code to prevent the AI from trading tech on the human player's turn.

As to what the AI gets for techs when it trades, I assume that it is similar to human player. That is, it depends on the number of civs that have the tech, etc.

[Solver]

Shaka, actually, 1.16 did that.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Shaka II
I believe that V1.17 (and V1.21) modified the code to prevent the AI from trading tech on the human player's turn.

As to what the AI gets for techs when it trades, I assume that it is similar to human player. That is, it depends on the number of civs that have the tech, etc.

hi ,

its less , but its the thoughts of a great deal of people that its still there , ...........

have a nice day

[Seneca]

I find it can be useful to go for certain techs that the AI doesn't usually bother with straight away - for example, if I hit Republic first, I can usually get one or twotechs off each civ (plus maybe cash and/or luxuries), and more or less catch up with the pack.

[Nym]

Originally posted by Seneca
I find it can be useful to go for certain techs that the AI doesn't usually bother with straight away - for example, if I hit Republic first, I can usually get one or twotechs off each civ (plus maybe cash and/or luxuries), and more or less catch up with the pack.

True. I did it twice during my current game and got once two techs and gold per turn for one tech (I think it was Atomic Theory against Combustion and Replaceable Parts).

[Xarathas]

Atomic Theory's a huge one cost wise. Which is good, since I think just about every game I obtained Atomic theory via theory of evolution (except for the games where the AI beat me to it, of course)

usually goes like this:

Research scientific method

Build darwin's voyage while researching Sanitation or replaceable parts (or both, depends).

Time the completion of evolution with the end of above research (play with tax rate)

obtain atomic theory + electronics.

trade everyone and their mom atomic theory to gain lots of $$ and techs (usually refining/steel/communism/espionage if any)

build hoover dam, then trade electronics if need be.

Seems to be a pretty stable pattern in my games.

[Solver]

Getting Scientific Method is surely the most important moment for me during the Industrial Age. However, I try to be already researching techs myself and getting in a nice situation tech wise by then.

[Xarathas]

I pretty much have research constantly on once into industrial age also, but I beeline down the electronics path (well, I get steam engine and industrialization first), so it's nice to be able to trade for techs on the upper tree.

[Jethro83]

Even though my ancient and middle-ages game revolves around war, I start carrying out my own research in the Industrial age. I set my path towards Motorized Transportation once that occurs, so that I can get tanks ASAP, and start warmongering again (by that point, cavalry just don't cut it).

Also, I find that by the time I've built the Theory of Evolution, I'm starting on my research into Atomic Theory. That way, my free techs are Atomic Theory and Electronics (both of which are quite expensive techs by the way).

[Panag]

hi ,

just two cent's worth , ......

with a hospital your city grows , and the bigger it gets , the bigger your civ's science , ...........

have a nice day

[grapedog]

What I have been doing lately is beelin for certain very nice tech's. Usually I beeline for Monarchy first, and then use that as a trading card. Then I'll have one of my smaller so/so towns near the capitol start building a palace or forbidden palace so when I get access to Sistine Chapel or Feudalism I can just switch the palace project to a wonder and no problems.

I've noticed that Monarchy demands a high price with the other civ's. Just last night I traded it to the Chinese for 4 other tech's. Is it mainly the government tech's that are real high price or ones with Wonders attached. I noticed no one would sell Feudalism for less than 400gold...