Just how do you improve on perfection?

Der Teddy Bär · May 4, 2001, 21:11

quote:

Just how do you improve on perfection?, PCZ begins. The problem then becomes where to take the third installment?

I am of the opinion that Sid Mier one of the greatest in regards to computer games. He has often been ahead of his time in regards to concept and implementation. BUT, in regards to the 2 games that I did play, Railroad Tycoon and CIV 2 I would be hard pressed to use 'perfection'.

Without taking anything away from Sid Mier or his work, but CIV 2 had some very large holes in gameplay. I have a Love/Hate relationship with CIV 2 has it is brilliant, yet there are so many flaws.

Whilst it is good,

quote:

"the effectiveness
and involvement of ranged weapons such as artillery are being increased to reflect a more realistic military perspective - including 'softening' a target's defences before a major assault."

I am still put off by the 1 at a time combat model. I cannot come to terms that a stack will not act as a single force. As I understand it, if I have 10 unts of foot soldiers, they will fight one at a time, not all at once? why?

This will leads to an emphasis on key units. If I have 3 elite units against 8 standard, I would expect on the 1 on 1 to come out ahead. However I would expect to fair worse on a 3 to 8 basis.

I have to admit that I am the war munger kind of guy, but I think that a more accurate combat model is as important to the people whom a tree huggers.

------------------
Cheers,

Der Teddy Bär

[This message has been edited by Der Teddy Bär (edited May 04, 2001).]

tniem · May 4, 2001, 21:21

DTB,

Just a question, if you have only played two games by Sid Meier and one of the games (Civ II) you believe to have gaping holes in it, than why do you believe that he (Sid) is "one of the greatest in regards to computer games"?

I am of that opinion but I have played a few more of his games than you do and while I have some things I find fault with in Civ II I still find it a phenomenal game. Any way just wondering.

Der Teddy Bär · May 4, 2001, 21:48

quote:

Originally posted by tniem on 05-04-2001 09:21 PM
DTB,

Just a question, if you have only played two games by Sid Meier and one of the games (Civ II) you believe to have gaping holes in it, than why do you believe that he (Sid) is "one of the greatest in regards to computer games.

I may not have always agreed with the subject, such as those yankee games about the civil war and SMAC, but I can appreciate what they offer and bring to the gaming experience.

This is not to say that in my mind that some of Sid Miers titles have not been what I would concider to be not up to par, such as CIV 3.

Of course there was Pirates! Oh what a game, though the Atari St version was so different and better than the pc version?

In all, I think when Sid Mier is moving forward that what he has done has been an advance in computer gaming.

------------------
Cheers,

Der Teddy Bär

May 4, 2001, 22:50

Sid is doing a great job, but there are two others that should shared some credit for where the computer games are today. Ken and Roberta Williams.
I had a chance to meet her some years ago and missed it. Boy was I dumb.
For some of you younger people Roberta is the first person to put pictures in a computer game. She is responsible for the King Quest series.

[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited May 04, 2001).]

Russian King · May 5, 2001, 10:23

quote:

Originally posted by Der Teddy Bär on 05-04-2001 09:11 PM
I am still put off by the 1 at a time combat model. I cannot come to terms that a stack will not act as a single force. As I understand it, if I have 10 unts of foot soldiers, they will fight one at a time, not all at once? why?

Yes, WHY? Excuse me, FIRAXIS but I must PROTEST!

I would say the model Sucks! That is one of the features in CTP that made it a significant way above civ2!
Maybe its only 1 by 1 at the moment, of corse, but make sure you change it when you release the game!!!

Phalanx_TS · May 5, 2001, 10:32

yeah i agree that the most annoying aspect of civ 2 was the combat. I could go in depth but i would be just wasting my time as most of the civ 2 fanatics know whats wrong with combat.
I've played alot of games of sids
civ 1
civnet
civ2
colonization
ctp
ctp2
i've actually made a really good World War scenario for civ2 and the 2 *major* aspects of the game that made me give up after that scenario was that i couldn't have more than 7 civs and the fact that the combat system wasn't real enough. Perfection is a term i believe you people use loosly

Der Teddy Bär · May 5, 2001, 21:50

quote:

Originally posted by tniem on 05-05-2001 12:44 PM
Stacked combat is one of the significant overhauls to the military menu that Firaxis has said is in the game.

quote:

The unit with the best defense will stand up and do the defending until he gets worn down by the battle, then he will stop and the other will stand up and defend. The same thing happens in attack

I hope that you are not saying that this as 'a significant overhaul'.

I had better combat rules on my Atari ST with Boradino in 1987.

------------------
Cheers,

Der Teddy Bär

tniem · May 6, 2001, 00:44

Stacked combat is one of the significant overhauls to the military menu that Firaxis has said is in the game.

tniem · May 7, 2001, 20:15

quote:

Originally posted by Der Teddy Bär on 05-05-2001 09:50 PM
I hope that you are not saying that this as 'a significant overhaul'.

I had better combat rules on my Atari ST with Boradino in 1987.

No I wouldn't call that a significant overhaul. I however have not seen that officially announced. I am sure it has been printed somewhere but please give me a link on the Firaxis page as to where it says that. Until Firaxis announces that as there idea of stacked combat I will go with what they have to say and not some gaming magazine that gets half the details wrong any ways.

From Firaxis:

quote:

In Civilization III, we continue to expand the combat system to make it a deeper part of the experience. Civilization III will have a combat system rich in fun choices that enhances the experience of planning and executing military campaigns. Here are just a few examples of how we are achieving this:

And

quote:

Good question. Units that have a speed advantage over their opponent will be able to retreat from combat, but you will also be able to launch an "assault", where your units will essentially attack until they win or are killed.

Sounds like some major changes. Keeping my fingers crossed though