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Old May 10, 2002, 00:12   #1
Catt
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AI Use of Specialty Units
I have long been frustrated with the seeming lack of utility of the two main "speciality units" - the marine and the paratrooper. The marine comes so late in the game it hardly seems useful (marines against mech inf does not produce winning amphib battles -- paratroopers with an 8 defense do not survive behind enemy lines when the enemy has railroaded territory and modern armour or even tanks).

I recently completed a game (Babylonians, Monarch, Standard, Continents, 8 Civs, Temperate, 4 Billion Years, v1.21f) during which my initial goal was to test several late game mods I wanted to experiment with, so I disabled Diplomatic, Cultural, and SS victories to avoid an early exit (yeah, I know, Babs but no cultural victory???). Of principal interest to this thread are the relatively minor mods I made to marines and paratroopers, and the greater mods I made to cruise missles and naval units (after lurking here and elesewhere and soaking up others' knowledge and ideas ). I don't know if this is random, or a result of the mod, but the AI seemed to take great advantage of my SOME of my mods.

Briefly, the mods:

cruise missle range to 4 tiles
submarines carry 4 foot soldiers (with AI strat "Naval Transport" flagged)
Nuclear subs carry 4 missles (cruise or tactical nuke)
Aegis carry 2 crusie missles (not nukes)
BB carry 1 cruise missle (not nukes)
paratroopers 7.9.1 (one production cost increase)
marines 9.7.1 (one production cost increase)
helicopters transport up to 4 foot soldiers

The argument for cruise missle mods and helo mods can be found on numerous threads. The idea with subs and foot soldiers is that subs can insert small special ops teams well behind enemy lines. The idea behind marines and paratroopers is that the should have overall/combined ADM of infantry, but higher cost given their special abilities.

What I found in gameplay with respect to one mod surprised (and pleased) me!


The AI INTELLIGENTLY used paratroopers. In the late game, in an effort to whittle down a larger and more advanced civ (Joan) I set about denying her any aluminum (and therefore modern armour). Even though Joan had the resources to make tanks, she spent a fair amount of production effort on paratroopers. Okay, I thought -- 'Stupid Joan, takes you one turn to pump paratroopers, but 2 turns to pump tanks, so you pump paratroopers.' BUT, Joan proceeded to airdrop paratroopers well behind my advancing lines, landing on both luxury and strategic resources, and even on a choke point with multiple paratroopers to hold the point (which happened to be undefended and have a fortress on it). At the same time, Joan was inserting 3 or 4 paratroopers at a time on MY continent via submarines -- I didn't have the coast ringed with Aegis and obviously didn't see any transports coming -- lo and behold, all of a sudden 4 paratroopers on home soil near weakly defended cities).

Now, I have NEVER before seen the AI use marines or paratroopers intelligently (and I wish Joan had been inserting marines onto my continent rather than pts, or, better yet, had pounded a coastal city with multiple cruise missles from a nuclear sub to soften defenses and then taken the city with marines off-loading from a sub, as I did against the AI ), and have rarely seen the AI use marines or paratroopers at all except where a reource deficiency deines them the ability to produce tanks, etc.; but I was very happy to see Joan using paratroopers to their full advantage as deep penetration infantry. Even with my mods, I still have never seen the AI use marines or helicopters intelligently (even though Joan built, but never used, several helos).

Has anyone seen the AI use paratroopers intelligently? Has anyone seen the Ai use marines intellignetly? I've only played 5 or 6 games at Monarch (most of my games have been on Regent) and don't know whether Joan's smart use of paratroopers has to do with the higher difficulty level, my own mods, or both.

All feedback appreciated .

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Old May 10, 2002, 02:49   #2
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That is extraordinary. I have never seen the AI drop paratroops.

Just a question. Why should Airbourne and Marines be limited to total ADM of Infantry? In many/some militaries they are the elite of the elite. More toys, higher cohesion, etc. Higher ADM total by a point or 2 might not be unreasonable.

I've seen the AI use Marines. I had deprived them of Oil in 1.17. They built Marines instead. They did not invade. I had invaded.

I don't know if I want to be around Poly when Soren sets the AI to load a Transport with 8 Marines and hit random, lightly defended ports.
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Old May 10, 2002, 14:53   #3
Catt
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Yeah, I thought it was extraordinary too. I had seen a few isolated incidents of the AI airdropping paratroopers, but never with any sense -- it would just parachute a trooper here or there, sometimes not even in my territory. The amazing thing in this game is that the AI was using them the way I would expect a human player to use them -- dropping well behind lines at choke points and on resource squares.

I have also seen the AI build marines, but, like you, seemingly only when they are deprived of oil, and then the AI just makes them because they have the highest attack for any non-oil land unit. I'm still waiting to see the AI use marines in an amphib assault.

With my mods to cruise missles -- making them seaworthy via nuclear subs as many here have done / suggested -- I feel that the marine is now a worthy unit again. Even in the age of mech inf, a trasport or two of marines, plus a compliment of 6 - 8 sea-based cruise missles, can take coastal metropolises with 3 (haven't done 4 yet) fortified mech infantry.

No special reason for limiting ADM to infantry levels. Mostly a sense of appropriate game balance and also due to the fact that the manual indicates that each is a "specialized" infantry unit. I guessed that the reduced "standard" ADM was made to compensate for their additional abilities -- I just choose to go the other way, same combined AD as infantry but a higher cost.

I really like the marine & cruise missle mod, but if the AI doesn't ever use marines in amphib assaults, this may be unbalancing (too much advantage to the human who will be the only one to use it) and I might have to kill it.

I would really like to see the AI surprise attack my coastal cities -- what a challange that could become!

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