I got the Magazine! Preview, First Impressions, Screenshots forthcoming!

Amazing amounts of new info, which I will type out in a minute, but I'll just point out the major additions for you to drool over:

• Completely Revamped ZOC system
• Real Stacked Combat
• New Tech Tree
• Minor Wonders
• Two new, so far secret, Multiplayer Modes
• More details on the Resource system
• New Barbarian model
• Four totally new screenshots, plus the two from the web the other day, four of the ones from CGW, and one from the FIRAXIS website. I will try to get these scanned in ASAP.

Sounds good, dunnit? Subsequent posts will offer details.

New info on... Wonders

Jeff Briggs: "Wonders of the World are as important as ever. We have all the Civ2 ones, a couple of new ones, some that are old and function in new ways and a brand new set that we call "small wonders". While you can only constuct one of each Wonder of the World, small wonders can be built by every civilization, such as the Strategic Defense Initiative, Apollo Program and Manhattan Project.

The Great Canal is one of the new Wonders in the game. When you build that, you can chose a place on the map and connect two oceans, so it's like the Panama Canal. We also have the Great Wall, which is an old wonder, but now you can chose a section of your border and you get a wall that is really hard for someone to get through. We have another great Wonder, the Internet, but we're not sure exactly how that's going to function. We know it's got something to do with education, it will create a smart populace, but appart from that we're stumped."

(Also, screenshots exhibit what looks like a giant temple in the forest, as well as The Pentagon. The wonder picture from the other day seems to have been the Appollo Project. A large Tower of Babel is on one screenshot, but I assume that's from the opening sequence.)

[The diplomat]

COOL!

If everybody has to build minor wonders to get their effect, does that mean that everybody has to build their own manhattan project in order to get nukes? I think that is a good idea. this will avoid small countries getting nukes just because the big civ completed the manhattan project. I think every country should have to build their own M Project.

Wonders will be placed on the map! That is excellent news. It will be really neat to actually be able to place the great canal and connect oceans or place the great wall along a border to keep out an enemy. wow.

It looks like they are making some Wonders have a more tangible effect on the game rather than just give freebies. Good.

So, The Internet will be in. Ok.

Give us more!

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.
[This message has been edited by The diplomat (edited April 27, 2001).]

New info on... Misc.

Multiplayer: "Right now we're looking at doing some unique things with the multiplayer, but we're not ready to start talking about it yet. The challenge in the past for turn-based games has been to make it really fun and we're looking at new ways of approaching that. We have two big online features, which I can't really say any more about. It's just not there yet and we're not comfortable talking about it. But both of these features are something you have never seen before and will be a big part of the game."

Start date: 4000 BC, as usual

Starting Units: One Settler, One Worker.

Number of Civilizations: Cut down to 16.

Number of Civilizations in one game: Still seven.

Victory Conditions: "UN Victory", essentially like "Diplomatic Victory" in SMAC added. Another possible addition is a Corporate Win: "We're talking about some new interest at the end, perhaps global investors, that spring up independently of any nation and control the end game if you make a deal with them. These are very unformed ideas, but we're looking at them."

Unique Units for Civs: Yes, they're in. Zulus - Impis. Americans - F15s. Germans - Panzer Tank.

Barbarians: "Barbarians now work in a totally different way. In this game Barbarians have cities, like all other civs, and they originate from these cities and make raids. Sometimes building roads can be really hard because there are barbarians out there that constantly attack. Each time you destroy a barbarian town, it will respawn itself in an area of the map you can't currently see. So what you have to try to do is set up a situation where you can see as much of the map as possible so that you can keep pushing them back.

[Urban Ranger]

This is all well and good, but...

the most important question I want to ask is, what are they doing to make the player feel like he's in control of a country instead of a loose collection of cities?
[This message has been edited by Urban Ranger (edited April 27, 2001).]

[The diplomat]

UN Victory like in SMAC: Does that mean there will be a Council too? YES,YES,YES!!

And the Corporate victory sounds very intriguing!

Civ3 is looking better and better!

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 10:12 AM Number of Civilizations: Cut down to 16. Number of Civilizations in one game: Still seven.

eeeer, hmmm....
can you check again?????????

New info on... Combat

Jeff Briggs (All quotes are from him, by the way, in case you wondered. The other info I try to summarise as much as possible): "Combat has become a much more significant part of the game. For starters, we have changed zones of control. In Civ2, all units had them, which made for some weird situations, like a phalanx fortified in the mountains stopping tanks going by. But we're finding the fewer zones of control we have the more fun the game is. Now only the fast, big units have them."

"We've also added bombardment. Catapults can now attack city walls and we have coastal bombardment. If you build a coastal fortress and a ship goes by it will immediately open fire." (Think about the potential for ocean choke points!)

BIGGEST NEW ADDITION (IMO): "Armies". Like a transport, you can place different units in an army and move them around together. "Say you have a tank and an infantry guy in an Army, and someone attacks. The unit with the best defense will stand up and do the defending until he gets worn down by the battle, then he will stop and the other will stand up and defend. The same thing happens in attack. So big armies are really, really powerful. In order to combat somebody who's got armies you pretty much have to build your own. It's an escalating thing which has a big impact on the game."

Armies can come into play in one of two ways: the most common is by researching Nationalism (new tech!). Once you've got nationalism, you can put your economy in one of three modes, mobilized, normal or peace. In peace mode, military buildings and units will cost twice as much, and peaceful buildings and units half as much. With mobilization the reverse happens, except you can now also build army units. The other way is through leaders, who will appear randomly after a successful battle. They will be named after real historical figures, and might also confer special benefits depending on their real historical status (the ones mentioned in the preview are Patton and "Stonewall" Jackson, with Patton adding a Tank bonus). "We'd like to do that - in some cases it makes a lot of sense, in others it doesn't. But Civ has always been very abstract in terms of its interpretations of when things occur and who's where. So we could easily go either way and make it work."

Coming up: Nukes; Trade, diplomacy and resources; Screenshots described. But now: Coffee Break, back in ten minutes. I will try to see if I can get access to the scanner too.

[The diplomat]

The "army" implementation looks great. We will probably get some huge battles since both sides will want to build large armies.
The 3 different modes for the economy sounds excellent.

Thanks for the info. Keep it coming!

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 10:34 AM BIGGEST NEW ADDITION (IMO): "Armies". Like a transport, you can place different units in an army and move them around together. "Say you have a tank and an infantry guy in an Army, and someone attacks. The unit with the best defense will stand up and do the defending until he gets worn down by the battle, then he will stop and the other will stand up and defend. The same thing happens in attack. So big armies are really, really powerful. In order to combat somebody who's got armies you pretty much have to build your own. It's an escalating thing which has a big impact on the game."

one word here: STACKS
the crucial question is: do we also have combined combat(archers attacking behind phalanxes)???

quote: Armies can come into play in one of two ways: the most common is by researching Nationalism (new tech!).

(not commenting on the fact that ctp had nationalism as a tech )
so we dont have stacks(sorry, armies) until... which century?

quote: leaders, who will appear randomly after a successful battle.

random, heh? ok, prepare for some fun random events..


run to the scanner snapcase!

quote: you can put your economy in one of three modes, mobilized, normal or peace. In peace mode, military buildings and units will cost twice as much, and peaceful buildings and units half as much. With mobilization the reverse happens, except you can now also build army units.

(again not commenting that ctp had similar "modes" )
question: are you saying that in "normal" and "peace" mode, you cant build any convetional units, even defensive ones?

and another question: how many units per army?
(ctp1 had 9, ctp2 had 12)

[DaveV]

MarkG, I think you may be on the wrong track with CTP-style interpretation of the armies. In Civ2 terms, the army sounds like nothing more than a mobile fortress. Best unit defends, by itself. If it's killed, the next one steps up. You can attack with as many units as you like.

Not my impression, Dave, I think it will fight until it's in the red and then let the next one take over, and same in attack. And CtP is non-canonical, and obviously doesn't count.

New stuff coming up in a sec, guys, I'm waiting for the scanner while typing this...

[jglidewell]

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 10:34 AM New info on... Combat Coming up: Nukes; Trade, diplomacy and resources; Screenshots described. But now: Coffee Break, back in ten minutes. I will try to see if I can get access to the scanner too.

Okay Coffee break is over now back to work. Damn no wonder they call them ur a peeings they drink too much damn coffee!

O-kay, while I'm waiting...

More info on... Nukes and Interface

Nukes: "There are two types of nuclear weapons. We have ICBMs that can hit anything on the map (yin26, Infinate missile range, eh - transcribers comment) and tactical nukes that can be put on submarines and launched as cruise missiles. If you think you can have a war and launch tactical nukes you can try it, but it's a challenge in the game just to survive the whole erea.
"The nuclear war part of the game should be (and this is something we're working on) something that you come to and pass through. In Civ2, it's sort of the end point. When you get nukes, everybody gets nukes and the game is pretty much over. In this game, if you're the first person to get them you will have an opportunity to benefit, but once everybody else gets them it's unlkiely that you can use them and have a successful game."

Interface: "The city screen is now on the map. We've put infromation at the bottom of the screen to make the player get more connected with the map and the cities. We're trying to keep the player on one screen as much as possible.
"One thing we really paid attention to is that is Civ2, there were a lot of pop-ups which would stop the game and you'd have to click through. Now we've put a lot of these pop-ups on the map so that you just read information and get on with the game.
"We're working hard to make it a seemless contious experience on the map instead of having to click a lot of buttons to proceed."

DaveV,

i'm talking about the idea that units can be grouped and move together.
the rules of the battle is another thing

quote: Originally posted by jglidewell on 04-27-2001 11:16 AM Okay Coffee break is over now back to work. Damn no wonder they call them ur a peeings they drink too much damn coffee!

Actually, 30 minutes was waiting for the scanner, with this damn woman who scanned in 20 full pages of course literature and trying to make space for it on her hard drive. I gave up, going back later. One guy still ahead of me, should be ~5 mins... *fingers crossed*

New info on... The Screenshots

While waiting for the scanner, I can at least tell you what they show. One more normal, in-game screenshot, showing a few more resources and a horseback unit with a big red circle around it, which I guess is its ZOC.

One Tower of Babel render.

A different city view screen, containing a courthouse, some sort of factory or power plant, The Pentagon, a huge temple in the forest, and more excitingly: "new" and "old" versions of both the Granary and the Colloseum.

Finally, the Domestic Advisor sceen, which contains detailed income reports, detailed city production data set out very clearly, and the tax rate sceen, except that it isn't anymore! It only has sliders for science and luxuries, and is called "Gold Allocation". Also, Sid is in the corner saying "Your sparkling civilization is home to Mr. Clean. Perhaps we should start a line of household cleaners?". Currently researching: "Fluff".

[The diplomat]

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 11:25 AM Interface: "The city screen is now on the map. We've put infromation at the bottom of the screen to make the player get more connected with the map and the cities. We're trying to keep the player on one screen as much as possible. "One thing we really paid attention to is that is Civ2, there were a lot of pop-ups which would stop the game and you'd have to click through. Now we've put a lot of these pop-ups on the map so that you just read information and get on with the game. "We're working hard to make it a seemless contious experience on the map instead of having to click a lot of buttons to proceed."

The article says that the city screen in now on the map. How will that work? How does it look?

Overall, I completely agree with Firaxis to have as few pop-ups as possible. It sounds like the interface will be very smooth.



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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[Roman]

So far, this game just looks too good to be true.

The scanner is almost free now, but one more quickie:

New info on... The Tech Tree

JB: "The tech tree is split into four sections: Ancient Times, Renaissance, Industrial and Modern. The new rules are that, in order to advance to the next section of the tech tree, you pretty much have to complete everything in the section before it, except what we call the arts or the intellectual pursuits.

"For example, you don't have to develop horseback riding in order to advance to the next era, nor anarchy, republic or literature. But literature gives you the Great Library, so they're useful to have. The whole new concept with the arts is that they're things you don't need to progress, but if you have them your civilisation is much stronger, more developed."

[Roman]

Wait a moment!!!

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 10:12 AM Number of Civilizations in one game: Still seven.

Noooooo!!! Noooooo!!! Noooooo!!!

[jglidewell]

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 11:27 AM Actually, 30 minutes was waiting for the scanner, with this damn woman who scanned in 20 full pages of course literature and trying to make space for it on her hard drive. I gave up, going back later. One guy still ahead of me, should be ~5 mins... *fingers crossed*

I very much appreciate what you doing. I've looked around my area (suburbs of DC)and so far have not found an outlet for the mag.

I'm drooling on every word.

[Roman]

I am guesing the "arts" also give you cultural points. That would be a good idea, IMO.

I'll come to Culture in a minute, since it's very much linked with Trade and Diplomacy. You'll have to wait for those three, though, because the scanner will be free in less than five minutes...

Yup, only seven civs per game and 16 overall. Sonce the germans, russians, chinese, english, zulus, americans and romans have all appeared in various artworks and previews, there are only nine more slots...

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat on 04-27-2001 11:39 AM The article says that the city screen in now on the map. How will that work? How does it look?

You've seen the Baltimore screenshot, haven't you? I guess the map window just gets smaller and darker and a menu pops up from below.

Scanner any minute now....

[Roman]

quote: Originally posted by Ceci n'est pas Snapcase on 04-27-2001 11:47 AM only seven civs per game

This is the worst piece of news I have heard about the game so far. Luckily, the other news is so good that it compensates for this severe deficiency.

[Roman]

I really appreciate what you are doing, Snapcase.

quote: Originally posted by vgriph on 04-27-2001 12:57 PM What is that pentagon up to the right (where the Lighthouse was in CGW)?

A wonder?

quote: Is ther some sort of Stadium in the City?

I think that's a collosseum upgrade. Look at the two granaries next to each other, obviously outdated buildings stay behind. Collosseums are named, by the way, on the Baltimore screenshot (appeared in previous preview as well as here, not scanned in), the Collosseum is called "Collosseum Bigname".